Anyone else have a FEAR of DATING??? (1 Viewer)

[AllanN]

Unfortunately, I know of several men who hesitate to open doors anymore, for fear of being snapped at by overly-independent women. Yes, these women are in full possession of the ability to move their extremities...but if manners were based soley on "ability" rather than simple acts of kindness and upbringing, it'd be a great loss to society.

My view is that if a women is offended by those kind of actions she is probably not the right women for me. Im sure if something as simple as opening a door is going to cause a problem with us that a issue much larger and insurmountable is coming ahead. Im also sure that some other men find that level of independence to be a virtue.

 

[Yee-Ming]

whew!<

errrrr, Dave, I think the idea is to get the girl's number and call her? in my limited experience, girls liked to be wooed, not the other way around no matter how interested she is in you...

 

[Dean DeMass]

Jenna,
I always open doors for women. I even open doors for women I don't even know. If I arrive at a door before or at the same time, I open the door for women. I will even wait an extra 15-30 seconds if I see a lady coming to the door. Why do I do this? Because i was raised to be polite to women and it is considered good manners. I have opened doors for a couple of hundred different women, and every time it results in a very nice "Thank You" and a smile. If the women's spouse is with them, it usually results in a dirty look from him because he probably never does it.
-Dean-

 

[Patrick Sun]

I think it's a matter of finding a good fit for you, i.e. be yourself, and if the other person responds to it, you're gold. If you are just polite in order to "score points" even though it's not in your nature to make certain gestures (like opening the doors for ladies, ordering for ladies), you aren't being true to yourself and sooner or later, you will slip, giving rise to suspicions as to what else you are not being truthful about.

 

[Julie K]

by overly-independent women.

Over-independent?

If you think there is something 'wrong' with being an independent female (I have a good job, good car(s), and live completely on my own) then you are under no obligation to live in that manner. On the other hand, I am under no obligation to live my life as you or anyone else in this thread (I'm still wondering about that making a 'woman act like a woman' bit) considers 'appropriate.' Hearing that independence is a 'turn-off' is of no importance to my life.

However, if I were to be in the marketplace for a date, my criteria are quite simple. I'd look for someone I could consider and treat as an equal and who would in turn consider and treat me as an equal. Getting "special treatment" is a two-edged sword.

 

[Dan Galyen]

Wow, go away for the weekend and the whole thread has changed...

Opening the door for a girl...if you are there first, hold the door open for her (and everyone else behind her), its polite. I wouldn't go running and trip to get to the door before her. That looks desperate.

I would NEVER order for a woman UNLESS she needed to excuse herself to "freshen up", OR I was ordering a bottle of wine for the two of us.

Now, pulling out her chair for her is especially polite, as is opening the car door for her. It used to be tradition for the man to also tip his hat. However, I believe she is completely capable of getting out of the car herself unless she is in a dress that makes it difficult, or you own a jeep or something that she needs help getting out.

Arriving at the front door of your first date with a SINGLE flower is polite, but not overbearing.

I guess my opinion on this stuff is if you feel you NEED to do it, than you are already behind the power curve. Being polite should come naturally.

I was once asked by a guy with his date at a bar that was on their first date to answer a question relating to a debate they were having, "this is our first date, if it was you, what would be your goal at the end of it?"

I felt the answer was simple, "a second date...". He felt pretty stupid because the girl completely loved the answer. I think I spoke to her more after that than he did.

 

[Todd H]

Cool, a dating thread!

Let me first state that I live in the deep south. So when it comes to holding doors open, I do it for women, men, kids, everyone. It's just the way I was raised. The same thing with ma'am and sir. Even if my waiter is a 16 year old kid, I'll call him sir. These things are just customary here. I don't feel a need to do them, it's just a part of who I am.

Now, as far as dating, I always let the lady order first. It's a good middle ground. As for car doors, I always open the lady's car door first. And like someone said, a SINGLE flower is a good idea.

My ideal person would be someone who...

Is college educated.
Loves kids.
Has a weird sense of humor.
Doesn't smoke.
Doesn't think she is the center of the universe.
Loves outdoor activities.

So far, after 33 years, I have yet to find this person. And when I think I have found the right person, the ol' friendship thing rears its ugly head. I dread being in the "friendship zone."

 

[Mark Schermerhorn]

There is nothing wrong with saying any potential date has to have a college degree. Dating is not an equal opportunity activity. I only date women with college degrees. There is nothing bad about that.

As far as being a gentleman, I like to open doors for women, but ordering their food for them is insulting, in my opinion. To each his own, though. What I really look for in situations like that is how women react. Do they get all worked up over small things like opening doors, or do they look at me as a whole? Basically I'm trying to avoid women who are bitchey and whiney, and find women who are laid back and have a good perspective on life.

 

[AllanN]

Getting "special treatment" is a two-edged sword.

This is the way it should be. If you care about someone and you make them feel special and wanted, they should do the same for you in there own special way (im not talking sexually here, so don't go there with the, "what am I supposed to sleep with someone just because they opened my door argument").

 

[Julie K]

OK Julie, lets be a little serious here.

Why? Surely I can't be the only one here making wild statements.

I am finding it most fascinating to see the extreme reactions that my comment has provoked. It is amusing to see such things as discussions of door etiquette, flat-tire changing duties, to suggestions that I feel "threatened" or that I am 'overly-independent', all as a result of one very specific comment concerning a tradition that does not exist where I live. All other speculations concerning what I do or do not say or do or eat under other conditions are a case of wild extrapolation from a single data point and are not worth the electrons they are printed with.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Oh, I've been avoiding this thread other than just to scan it. But why should an adult, professional woman's preference for ordering food on her own--and expressing abject hostility toward the idea of anyone who would presume to order for her--be considered controversial?

Anybody here remember feminism? I hate to think the gains made in the 1970s have been forgotten so soon.

Everybody's different, fer chrissakes. The sooner we accept that, the better relationships would work at the very least.

 

[AllanN]

I am finding it most fascinating to see the extreme reactions that my comment has provoked

When you start out with a extreme statement sometimes you get a extreme response.

The larger point that I was trying to achieve was that we are all looking for different things and that I would not be compatible with someone that did not enjoy the fact that I do open doors, change tires, etc.

I did't not intentionally mean to attack one one person or a group of peoples feelings or beliefs. If I did, I apologize that what I have said offended you.

 

[Zen Butler]

all as a result of one very specific comment concerning a tradition that does not exist where I live.

These traditions may work for some, but I find them a bit intentional and sometimes condescending. I'll be a bit more blunt Julie, What is an "overly-independent" woman supposed to mean? Thankfully, my single-mother was "overly-independent"

The term "overly-independent woman" has a kind of a sexist undertone.

Jenna to address your post, I have a blast occassionally dating. It is not fearful for me because I eliminate strive.
I thought that criteria post was a hoot. If I saw that in an ad, before I showed up at the door... I would quit my job, trade my 2002 in for 59 VW Bug (primered w/dents), purposely losen door-hinges and cabinets around the house, so they kind of dangle. Buy a t-shirt that says Co-Dependent and a 4 guage barbell through my lip. Criteria ?

 

[Jack Briggs]

Oh ... opening the door for oneself (including car doors), carrying one's own belongings without assistance, paying one's own bills with her own funds, supporting oneself on her own salary, being technically adept without the aid of male advice or input, choosing where one wants to go when she wants to--that sort of thing. Way overly independent, no?

What's this world coming to ...

 

[Mark Schermerhorn]

Julie, we're living in a world where patriarchy is crumbling, but at different rates that vary pretty drastically if you just look at geography (urban vs rural, CA vs the south, etc). To me this can make dating a big pain in the ass. People and their expectations vary so much. I don't think any of those comments should be all that surprising. And obviously there are women out there who prefer the more "traditional" man, like the one who started this thread.

Most of the women I date are pretty similar, when you compare them to the average cross section of American women. But what they want and expect can vary pretty wildly, from what we do on a first date to whether or not I'm trying to get them in bed on the 2nd date (I've had a few that were surprised when I didn't). The problem is that they're often shocked when I don't do exactly what they expect. And I'm not overly aggressive or "strange", per say, I'm generally laid back and I take it as it comes.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy dating a lot, but trying to predict what women want is a really draining exercise that often leaves me shell shocked. A lot of the time I get the impression that women don't even know what they want, even if they say they do, which certainly doesn't help. Dating is tough, that's all there is to it.

 

[Aurel Savin]

It's interesting where this thread is going but at the same time it is important to know what qualities you like in another person.
Personally, I would like my partner to be my equal and be independent and have her "own life" so to speak. On the other hand I do like my women ... well ... to be "feminine"!
Another words, I don't like women who have a problem with me acting like a gentleman and who feel insecure becuase I do.
I actually do not like women who are into Home Theater, as far as the technical aspect of it is concerned (i do like ones that are into movies). I actually like to fight over the fact that the movie is "too loud" and she doesn't like it. Or that she does not like "action" movies, or that the speakers take up too much space in the room ... I had the best arguments with my ex about these things
Also do not like ladies that change their own tires or "work" on their car. It has nothing to do with a threat to my masculinity ... it is just a personal thing.
Certain aspects of a woman should stay "feminine" ...

 

[Julie K]

Quote:

[ sarcasm ]
And do tell, what is poor little me supposed to do when my car gets a flat tire and there's no manly man around to help me? Flutter my eyelashes and hope some kind passerby will take care of that oh-so-complicated and *ewwww* dirty tire?
[ / sarcasm ]
Anyway, I was completely unaware that a penis was required to change a flat tire. Somehow, all these years I managed without a problem. I can also do minor plumbing, minor electrical work (although I do follow my father's great example in that by tripping circuit breakers with some regularity), minor car repair (yes! shocking I know), and general all-around odd jobs.
Oh the shame!

 

[Dean DeMass]

Anyway, I was completely unaware that a penis was required to change a flat tire.

How do you think some of us jack the car up.
-Dean-

 

[Dean DeMass]

Julie,
I also wanted to add that I am now officially scared of you.
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Just kidding. Keep up the great posts.
-Dean-

 

[AllanN]

OK how about this. Ill put down my rock and you put down your sword (trying somehow to link this to HT )and we ask Jenna if any of this has given her any insight into her fear of dating.
So Jenna has all the advice and stories of other peoples fears helped you overcome yours?
Meanwhile if someone is so inclined to start a thread about "customs of western courtship and the ramifications of patriarchy on modern society" we can continue this off topic discussion there.