Any Final Cut Pro users here? (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

Also, with all the dinosaurs trumpeting about how this isn't going to work for them I have to sit back a little and recall the pronunciations at another Apple new release:
http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-iPod
"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
I don't doubt that for tape based and those who absolutely positively must have multicam this isn't going to be the point where they jump in. Fine, keep using FCP7.
But those bitching that they can't import FCP7 files fail to understand that this is a FEATURE not a bug.
Let me give you a parallel. Have you ever looked at a MS Word .doc file? It's a mess specifically BECAUSE of the 30 years of baggage it carries. Apple is not afraid to kill their babies, if old file formats, floppy disks, or even Blurays must be sacrificed for the good of the most users, they do it and I applaud them even if some of those decisions give me short term pain.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten
Also, with all the dinosaurs trumpeting about how this isn't going to work for them I have to sit back a little and recall the pronunciations at another Apple new release:
http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/Apple-releases-iPod
"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
I don't doubt that for tape based and those who absolutely positively must have multicam this isn't going to be the point where they jump in. Fine, keep using FCP7.
But those bitching that they can't import FCP7 files fail to understand that this is a FEATURE not a bug.
Let me give you a parallel. Have you ever looked at a MS Word .doc file? It's a mess specifically BECAUSE of the 30 years of baggage it carries. Apple is not afraid to kill their babies, if old file formats, floppy disks, or even Blurays must be sacrificed for the good of the most users, they do it and I applaud them even if some of those decisions give me short term pain.

I think, though, Sam that while we say "have you looked at the underlying.." no. In fact, most people don't. All they care is whether or not it actually works and prints (in the case of Word) and how it plays on the screen. In the case of MS Word, we can gripe about it carrying baggage, but that baggage also has secured it about 85% of the office marketplace. Microsoft Office on the Mac is still one of the most profitable releases MS has, so it's not going anywhere..
But back to FCP.. FCPX is a great product, I've spent time playing with it, and there is a lot to really like about it. But it's failure to import FCP7 is not a "well, it's great they kill their babies!" I understand the feeling of that, but there are plenty of people who have built together segment libraries within FCP7 that are designed to be used as bumpers/trailers/etc. material they use and re-use often in their production work. The inability to re-import those scripts frankly sucks.

If they say "well, it needs to change" then a provision for a conversion tool would help. I do work with a local that uses exclusively FCP for their local production shows; these are idiots, they are multi-local market emmy winners. They have libraries in the terabytes of production bumpers/etc. that they use and re-use along with their shows. So, the "doesn't import" bit sucks for someone like them.

I think the best advice for most is going to be a staged rollout. Have something running the older FCP to finish current projects so that you don't stop them dead in their tracks, and have someone else work on the conversion of segments to the new.

That said, this problem doesn't impact very many people. and those people (high end market) are the most able to put in the work to fix it. For people starting new, or people who do project by project, this is a non-issue.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Pogue has gone all in with the new FCP X:
David Pogue's review of Apple’s Final Cut Pro X
Follow up article: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/professional-video-editors-weigh-in-on-final-cut-pro-x/

I feel some of the pain of pro FCP users: I think that as a serious HTPC Mac guy Lion will inflict serious pain on me.
On the other hand I suspect that at least a small part of the outrage is there because of how much easier to use the new FCP is -- plenty of the FCP pros are worried about their job security -- kind of like why IT guys get so apoplectic about letting Macs in -- most users don't need an IT guy to administer their Mac...

Edit: just read some of the follow up's comments. Holly mackerel -- you'd think Steve Jobs personally went to a bunch of production houses and erased their copies of FCP 7. Man -- talk about whining babies. I wonder if Apple will just release FCP 7 as a free download -- they should, it will STFU at least some of these idiots and will sell a few truckloads of MacPros… Some of the threats of how their switching to Adobe Premier today are plain comical -- yeah, that will work so much better than FCP X -- tell me this is all one big internet joke I'm not in on.

 

[DavidJ]

Ted, while they can be a reactionary bunch on the Internet, I respectfully disagree with your take on the "pro" response. For the most part, the ones that are still in the business stopped worrying about their jobs in that aspect a long time ago. Like back when FCP 1 came out. There are a lot of very legitimate issues and Apple's surprise move to remove FCS 3 and FC Server was a shock to even the biggest FCP X proponents. And while Pouge does note several workarounds in his follow-up, they are cumbersome and time consuming and that doesn't work at this level.

Obviously FCP X will take some getting used to and even though I can't install it yet (grr!) I've read enough to know there are some things I will really like and some that I won't. I think the magnetic storyline is an intriguing approach and I would like to use it at times, but I wish it could be turned on and off. And the gap clip is not an acceptable substitute.

I know what I'm going to do as a pro. I will maintain and use FCP 7 when appropriate. I'll get to know FCP X and use it, if and when it does what I need. And I will investigate Premiere again. Seriously.

As far as what I'm going to teach in my media production courses that is a thornier issue. I honestly don't know what we are going to do there. Before all of this, we already decided to beef up our Avid instruction and some people are going to Premiere. It's a slim chance and I'd hate to see it happen, but there is a chance that we would drop FCP from our programs.

 

[DavidJ]

Evidently Conan's staff really likes it:

http://mashable.com/2011/06/24/conan-final-cut-pro-x/

 

[WinstonCely]

I've been a "professional" editor using Final Cut exclusively since 2003 (yeah, not long) and I'm amazed at how afraid of change professionals in the video and audio field are when it comes to upgrading the software. Frankly, I don't get it. The excuse that more people will be able to use it doesn't cut it for me. Sure, more people are going to buy a professional editing program, and they're going to be able to use the software just as easily as a professional, but software doesn't make you a good editor. Yes, these new users will probably cost half as much to hire as seasoned professionals, and initially some of us will lose clients to these guys because of the costs. That does suck, but when the client is confused that these new tools don't guarantee a quality end product, they'll realize why we professionals are more expensive, and come crawling back to us.

The dramatic change in the process of editing in this software, is sure to take some time for those of us who use FCP for as long as we have and never bothered to open up iMovie to learn. However, FCPX is so cheap, why not buy it now, and learn it now? Give yourself some time to learn it, because it is the future of editing. No one is saying you HAVE to use FCPX right now to do your professional work. I'm not, but the fact that FCPX and FCP7 can coexist on the same drive tells me there's every reason to keep on plugging away with FCP7 for your paid projects, while you take your time learning FCPX. By the time you feel comfortable enough to use it full time, more features will be added (probably the ones we need the most) and you can make the switch then.

I hate that you can't export out OMF or import old FCP7 projects, but again, don't delete FCP7 and you'll be fine.

I think the biggest thing people wanted from the new FCP was better media management. You get that with FCPX, but if you can't use it now because it's missing the features you specifically need, then don't force yourself into using FCPX (or at least stop complaining about it). FCP's media management has been the same since it's first version, and if you haven't figured out workarounds by now (despite the fact that it's silly that we've had to come up with workarounds in the first place) then you're probably using the wrong software.

There are going to be some people who are going to be able to switch immediately (those who don't use tape for capture or delivery come to mind) while the rest of us will continue to use FCP7. We just shouldn't allow the omission of certain features keep us from learning this software. Like I said earlier, this is the future of editing software, and I for one, am excited about the possibilities.

 

[DavidJ]

Winston, I don't really disagree with anything you posted, it is a reasonable response, but the following remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by DellaStMedia
because it is the future of editing.

 

[WinstonCely]

David, you're totally right. That is really just my opinion, but sometimes I can't help myself. The very limited time I've spent with FCPX really makes me excited about what it will be able to do.

I'm starting a new project next week, and what I'm planning on doing is, as I stated above, use FCP7 to do the actual work, but then I'm going to use FCPX to see if I can mimic the exact same edit. I want to use this as an opportunity to learn FCPX and if all goes well, I'm going to see if I can come up with workarounds for some of the more common missing features.

Not to mention I've agreed to teach a one day started course on FCPX in August, so I have to be as up to speed with it as possible.

 

[Ted Todorov]

David -- I do agree that Apple screwed up in this sense -- what they should have done is kept FCP 7 available at a greatly reduced price and promised bug fixes for some time to come -- certainly addressed the issue of FCP 7 still working under Lion. In the mean time they could explain that FCP X is the future and features will be added over time. I suspect that they will come up with some sort of well thought out statement in a couple of weeks, just as they have done with a number of recent controversies.

That said, I'll tell you of one complaint I don't buy -- that editors who desperately need new copies of FCP 7 can't get them. You'd think eBay would be absolutely inundated with used ones, what with that tidal wave of angry editors switching to Premier...

But jokes aside I do have one question -- you feel that there is no issue at all with job security. So does that mean that there was no job losses when the industry switched from the Moviola to computers? What about the switch over from 35mm film to video in the cinematographer and film lab trades?

Apple's [Sean Connery] When he reached the New World, Cortez burned his ships. As a result his men were well motivated[/Sean Connery] approach to this change over may be based on their belief that the new tools are so much better than the old ones, that the industry will have no choice but to adopt them, and that the results with the new tools will be so much better and faster that veterans who don't adopt them will be supplanted by newcomers who do.

 

[mattCR]

I have two clients that are in the video production business. They do it for a living, and they have a split use for Avid and FCP. And they were absolutely boo-hooing on FCPX tonight. So, I'll tell you my thoughts:

(1) I think the decision to kill FCP7 sales was a very, very bad one. I get the comment "they can find them on Ebay, etc." That really isn't the point. The problem isn't getting them, it's that effectively support is ended. FCP7 does not work correctly under Lion as it stands. So, it does mean that when Lion rolls, people who need/use FCP7 will have to pass. It also means that as CODEC changes and other things come about, it is unlikely that those updates will come to a now unsupported product (FCP7). That's the concern I heard. This is the preposterous part. Most Apple users remember the rollout of OSX. OSX10 had some issues. So did 10.1. It was really 10.2 where it started to get good. But what about those old Macs? Apple continued to support and sell options on OS9 (which to be honest was crap) for 2 years after the release of OSX. So, what was with all the sudden pulling up the pony and dropping sales and support for FCP7 in such a hurry?

(2) Far more concerning to them, however, is something I give absolutely no concern about at all, and that's the loss of FCP Server. Amongst six editors, they store quite a few TB on a Fiberlink connection that they just had put in in January. Again, here we are talking about "Pros". Editing together sports and local media, they keep vast arrays of seasonal bumpers/lead ins and outs and scripts in these libraries. This allows their production group to work on them as the need them. So, admittedly, they aren't super interested in jumping ship; their SAN solution that ran them more then a high-priced car six months ago. I grasp the argument "but you CAN bundle it and send it to another editor" Except that's not really viable, apparently. When a project is 150GB or more, for even a short uncompressed, bundling it and sending it on is huge network traffic back and forth - worse now you have multiple copies on the network, so you run into an issue of versioning "Who worked on this last? Oh, you made changes.. ok, wait, why aren't Bob's changes in that one? You got it from Tim? Ok, who has all of the changes (crickets).

(3) Anytime new comes out, there are always issues with "Job Security" but it's mostly a lark. Te best editors are the best editors not at all because of the software they are using, but because of their keen eye and ability to create structure out of chaos in post production. The person I mention above that I work with is a multi-Emmy winner. No matter what happens with Apple or Avid or Adobe, they have a job. So, let's just say, I don't think any of the best editors are shaking in their boots worrying about being sacked over it. I also don't think many midlevel editors are, because they are cheap enough that they don't have traditional workflow, it's spot jobs anyway.

(4) Again, as a consumer (Not a pro) I think the product is brilliant. I think its far more powerful then iMovie, it functions and works very well, and the interface is easy to get at. After playing with it for a day, I'm pretty damn impressed. But the same end, I get where they are coming from. They have archives, productions, bumpers, commercial promos that they use, reuse, edit, update, etc. for what they do. FCPX makes that library and digital storage obsolete. They can stick with FCP7, but again, no guarantee how it works with Lion when it goes final, and now there will be no updates, which means at some point, they have to transition.


But, I think for all the boo-hooing on that front, Apple's decision is a smart one. For about 4% of their market, they will probably split and go to Aavid. I can't think of anyone who would seriously jump to Adobe - the people who could do that aren't big enough that the real concerns of changes to FCPX should impact them. For a production house running a san with libraries of shows, it matters - but for them, FCP is an investment of tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. For someone who would switch to Adobe, not so much. (JMHO).

Apple's basic move here does hurt that audience (for now), but that audience, frankly, is a small one. Far smaller then the audience of potential buyers who will snap it up at $299. So, I get the complaints. I can agree with the complaints. But at the same time, from a business perspective, I tend to think Apple's move probably makes them much more money then catering to the complainers. So, there is that. Maybe they split for Avid.. at which point, Apple loses a potential $299. Meanwhile, they gained about 20 sells to consumers for that 1 loss. Frankly, it's a tradeoff I think they already anticipated, whether they say it or not.

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov
David -- I do agree that Apple screwed up in this sense -- what they should have done is kept FCP 7 available at a greatly reduced price and promised bug fixes for some time to come -- certainly addressed the issue of FCP 7 still working under Lion. In the mean time they could explain that FCP X is the future and features will be added over time. I suspect that they will come up with some sort of well thought out statement in a couple of weeks, just as they have done with a number of recent controversies.

That said, I'll tell you of one complaint I don't buy -- that editors who desperately need new copies of FCP 7 can't get them. You'd think eBay would be absolutely inundated with used ones, what with that tidal wave of angry editors switching to Premier...

But jokes aside I do have one question -- you feel that there is no issue at all with job security. So does that mean that there was no job losses when the industry switched from the Moviola to computers? What about the switch over from 35mm film to video in the cinematographer and film lab trades?

Apple's [Sean Connery] When he reached the New World, Cortez burned his ships. As a result his men were well motivated[/Sean Connery] approach to this change over may be based on their belief that the new tools are so much better than the old ones, that the industry will have no choice but to adopt them, and that the results with the new tools will be so much better and faster that veterans who don't adopt them will be supplanted by newcomers who do.

 

[Ted Todorov]

What Matt is saying -- in two tweets:





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

danielpunkass
Final Cut Pro X review: Apple will happily piss off 5,000 professionals to please 5,000,000 amateurs.
6/24/11 4:49 PM








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steamshift
@danielpunkass especially if 5000 of those amateurs become professionals using the new FCPX paradigm ...
6/24/11 4:50 PM




Matt -- I agree about the support, thus my view that Apple should have/and now should continue FCP 7 support. I'm too lazy to link, but that are a number of excellent articles on both sides of the issue linked to by Daring Fireball yesterday. The most clever suggestion I saw was that Apple should have released the exact same software and simply called it Final Cut Express and some time down the line when feature parity with FCP 7 is achieved or a critical mass of even the Pro-Pros have moved to X(press), knife 7. I'd add my own version, which is they could have still called FCP X initially saying the X stands for eXpress and eventually when 7 settles into the dusts of time say that X is pronounced 10. Essentially all that meant for Apple was a slightly different PR strategy, plus some bare bones software support to keep 7 from becoming (too) broken.

Back to David -- look at this article from just days ago:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/112946/doomed-industries-bnet
You'll never guess which Doomed Industry is at the top of the list of doomed industries:

Calling Cut on Video Postproduction Services

One of the least publicized industries in terminal decline is video postproduction services. This field encompasses everything needed to prepare a film for distribution after the cameras have stopped rolling (or in the current age, after that little red recording light goes dark on the video camera).

Why the decline: Consolidation in the entertainment business is to blame. Movie studios are moving post-production in house. Meanwhile, technological advances have boosted efficiency -- as anyone who has seen the controlled chaos of a traditional celluloid cutting room versus the neat efficiency of digital editing software can attest. The results:

• Decline in revenue last decade: -24.9 percent.

• Forecasted decline in revenue in the next decade: -10.7 percent.

• Forecasted decline in the number of establishments next decade: -37.8 percent.

If editors aren't worried about their job security, they should be. I stand by my original assertion that part of the anger stems from FCP X lowering the entry barrier into Pro editing.

Lastly does anyone have a working link to that Conan skit -- all the YouTube links are broken -- I guess TBS or ConaCo doesn't have a deal with Google.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov /img/forum/go_quote.gif



What Matt is saying -- in two tweets:





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

danielpunkass
Final Cut Pro X review: Apple will happily piss off 5,000 professionals to please 5,000,000 amateurs.
6/24/11 4:49 PM








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steamshift
@danielpunkass especially if 5000 of those amateurs become professionals using the new FCPX paradigm ...
6/24/11 4:50 PM






Matt -- I agree about the support, thus my view that Apple should have/and now should continue FCP 7 support. I'm too lazy to link, but that are a number of excellent articles on both sides of the issue linked to by Daring Fireball yesterday. The most clever suggestion I saw was that Apple should have released the exact same software and simply called it Final Cut Express and some time down the line when feature parity with FCP 7 is achieved or a critical mass of even the Pro-Pros have moved to X(press), knife 7. I'd add my own version, which is they could have still called FCP X initially saying the X stands for eXpress and eventually when 7 settles into the dusts of time say that X is pronounced 10. Essentially all that meant for Apple was a slightly different PR strategy, plus some bare bones software support to keep 7 from becoming (too) broken.

I haven't seen that, but they would have saved themselves a lot of heartburn if they didn't call this FCPX. Hell, maybe they should have just called it something totally different. If they said "Apple HD MoviePro" or whatever, people would have said "Oh, it's very different then FCP, but it's a whole different thing.. " and the press would have been "wow, look at all the cool things it does". I think taking the name FCP may have put it in a hole, because too many people will be comparing to FCP and the things it doesn't carry forward rather then focusing on the things it does. Nothing causes fury quite like knifing a product....








Conan's people would be amongst the ones who would have the biggest issue with the loss of something like FCP Server. I understand your point about making it easier for editors to come in. I think most of those who are most concerned are editors who are in jobs that aren't really going much of anywhere because they already are in house. The example I used yesterday is someone who works on a national and a few local TV shows. Their biggest concern was the loss of FCP Server, and the lack of import. The more I've thought about what they were saying, I get it. In general, on their TV show, they have a huge array of apparently 20 and 30 second "bumper" type material that they have archives and banked in FCP7. These are designed to be quickly updated and edited with new text and inserts, but carry the framework for intros/outros and pitches to commercials etc. The reason why they do it is because banking these transitions and events is easy, and it saves a ton of time. Think of something like Conan. Let's say they do a "In the Year 3000" type sketch. They most likely have a banked intro/outro that they can drop in and move to where needed. Moving to FCPX right now, since it can't import that, means that for a while, they would have a large amount of recreation of these segment "events" to put into their bank.



But because of the issue with no FCP Server, you're talking about generally one point of editing, not multiple, as each time you want to move it on to another editor you have to bundle the whole thing and move it to another Mac. And you're not really "moving" it's copying.



All this said, the people who are going to be most pissed are the people in the pro environment, who will view these drawbacks as far more serious then I do. I'm not working with a team of 4 or 5 editors on a daily production. Those things don't matter to me at all. I'm pretty impressed with the product. But I can understand why they'd be pissed.



I think Apple needs to reconsider the "full stop" on FCP7, and at least promise those guys they will figure out a patch to make it work correctly in Lion, which would put a lot of people's stomach at ease.

 

[DavidJ]

Ted, I saw that article when it came out and it is primarily talking about traditional post-production house and it is a decline that has been going on for years. And it underscores what I was saying about job security. The paradigm shift occurred years ago with the advent of software based editing and the development of cheap computing---when I started doing on a laptop things that used to require $150,000+ suites. This leveled the playing field and competitive advantage was no longer about who had the capital resources. This is what really scared the old guard and changed things by dropping the most significant barrier to entry. But like the graphic design industry stabilized with those who were both skilled and good business people surviving so will (if not has) this industry. Success is no longer about access to specific tools, but skillsets, creativity, customer service, management, etc. Or in other words, the way it should be (see Matt's #3).

One other thing to keep in mind is the proliferation of moving images with more networks, mobile devices, streaming, etc.

 

[mattCR]

Well, despite the hope of having FCP7 and FCPX on the same HDD, apparently, if you want to do this, you will have to partition and have two installs of OSX on your mac.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4722

Summary
It is strongly recommended that you install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, and Compressor 4 on a startup disk that does not have Final Cut Studio (2009) already installed.


Products Affected
Compressor 4, Motion 5, Final Cut Pro X

If your Mac has only one hard disk and it already has Final Cut Studio (2009) installed on it, you can partition the hard disk to create a separate startup volume to install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, or Compressor 4. For instructions, see the section below titled "Install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, or Compressor 4 on a new partition".

If you must install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, or Compressor 4 on the same startup disk as Final Cut Studio (2009), see the section below titled "Install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, or Compressor 4 on the same startup disk as Final Cut Studio (2009)."




They give you advice on how to partition up your HDD so you can dual boot OSX if you can't get another HDD.
Great.

That sure seems good ;(

Apple's designers make it official that it will never support importing FCP7:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/15469892#15469892

"FCP7 projects do not have enough information in them to properly translate to FCPX (in FCP7 all of the clip connections live in the editor's head, not in the timeline). We never expected anyone to switch editing software in the middle of a project, so project migration was not a priority.


Final Cut Pro X 1.0 is the beginning of a road, not the end."

While this seems sensible, if you now have to dual boot or create multiple partitions to have on the same system, it's an either-or for many. Especially since FCPX can only write to HFS+ partitions (so forget saving to network SMB storage/SAN/etc.)... And while it sounds feasible, it also makes the assumption that no one wille ver come back a few months later and say "Hey, remember those Bubba Starling highlight show you did for us a two years ago when he was drafted? Now that he's going to get a shot at the big show, we'd like to get that, but we need to edit in some highlights of him in AAA/AA ball.. can you get that for us.."

 

[mattCR]

Larry Jordan puts out a very effective Blog: http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/archives/1514

Which is a shame, because FCP X has such great potential — but now, Apple has to concentrate on damage control, rather than getting people excited about the new program.
After the launch, Apple compounded their problems with three extremely poorly timed moves:

1. Canceling Final Cut Studio (3) and pulling all existing product from the market. This is devastating to shops that can’t use Final Cut Pro X. The two applications can co-exist on the same system — killing FCP 7 will not boost sales of FCP X to those shops that can’t run it. All it does is set up a black market for FCP 7.

2. Not providing – then publicly stating (thru David Pogue’s New York Times blog) that they do not plan to provide – a conversion utility from FCP 7 to FCP X. Not only does this render a HUGE number of past projects inaccessible, it sets up the obvious conclusion that if Apple is willing to discontinue support for legacy applications with no warning, what’s to prevent them from doing so again in the future? Every time you watch a movie that is more than 6 months old, you are dealing with legacy assets. Not providing a conversion utility is completely inexcusable.

3. Leaving the support for interchange formats – XML, EDL, OMF and others – to third-parties; or not supporting them at all. Yes, the video and film industry needs to move into the current century. However, Hollywood is very reluctant to change what works. Meeting deadlines is far more important than adopting new technology. Apple’s walled garden approach is totally at odds with the nature of post-production, where the editing system is the hub around which a wide variety of other applications revolve. On any editing project I routinely run 5-10 other programs simultaneously — only three of which are from Apple. I am constantly moving data between programs. This, combined with a lack of support for network-based storage, highlight grave development decisions in determining what features to include in the program.

This launch has been compared to Coca-Cola launching New Coke – resulting in a humiliating loss of market share.
With Final Cut Pro X, however, the situation is worse — with New Coke, only our ability to sip soda was affected. With Final Cut Pro X, we are talking losing livelihoods.

Jordan was/is involved in the development of the training series for FCPX, and was connected to Apple as a developer who has had access to FCPX for some time. I think he gets to the root of it when he just says: the biggest folly was pulling FCP from the bins, discontinuing support.. which puts a lot of people in the "fear" mode of: OK, FCP7 does not work right with Lion.. so I guess we're screwed when that ships, or Macs that need it ship...

 

[Sam Posten]

Thanks all for the great info. I've purchased the whole 3 app bundle but haven't really had time with my house sale to really get down and dirty with it yet. I've been collecting a LOT of links on the commotion and will put a few of em in the next few posts:
http://www.filmmakingwebinars.com/2011/06/23/who-is-final-cut-pro-x-really-for/
Two free webinars on FCPX coming up:
http://www.filmmakingwebinars.com/webinars/making-the-transition-to-final-cut-pro-x/
http://www.filmmakingwebinars.com/webinars/final-cut-pro-x-hands-on-tour/

 

[mattCR]

The more I play with it, the more impressed I am. It is definitely more then iMovie Pro as some call it. Some very, very nice features and it runs fast as the dickens on my wife's MBP.

That having been said, I completely understand the argument that the marketing on this is terrible; it was aimed at the wrong basic audience and failed to really succeed at that. If this had been named anything except Final Cut Pro, people would be talking about how awesome it is. If it was New Media Editor Pro or whatever, it'd be all praise.

I think the biggest mistake really boils down to cutting support and sales of FCP7, and taking the name. Change those two decisions, and you'd have a web full of praise for how awesome the product is, instead of bitching about what it doesn't do.

 

[Sam Posten]

Especially since those who depend on it can't buy new copies of FCP7. I get it, that is HORRIBLE. One solution I've floated is that Apple could make FCP7 free. As in beer. I don't expect it to happen but it could and it would go a long way to covering those who need to wait for some of the missing pieces to fit in.
Here's the first step in that:
http://richardharringtonblog.com/files/6d11fdb8adc38134152b7a8bc4e09410-1446.php
Anywho, here is my reading / viewing list of links that I don't think have made it here yet. If there's a few dupes in the list mea culpa!



http://raberco.tumblr.com/post/6867835385/apple-fcp-final-cut-pro
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raberco/5875834724/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://techpinions.com/final-cut-pro-x-apple-and-the-enterprise/565
http://www.taoofcolor.com/510/final-cut-pro-x-merged-with-apple-color/
http://www.taoofcolor.com/528/apple-color-1-5-a-requiem/
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/06/final-cut-pro-x.php
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/final-cut-pro-x-whats-missing-for-some-pros
http://www.biscardicreative.com/blog/2011/06/were-not-throwing-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater/
http://richardharringtonblog.com/files/fcpx_response.php
http://richardharringtonblog.com/files/e4a8cc80796bb228b2160a62eb7af241-1445.php
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?253640-FCP-X-is-growing-on-me-a-little...
http://www.dvcreators.net/what-does-the-guy-who-led-the-original-final-cut-pro-revolution-think-of-the-final-cut-pro-x-release/

 

[Sam Posten]

More:
http://www.macworld.com/article/160680/2011/06/apple_recut_final_cut_pro_x.html#lsrc=twt_macworld

http://www.biscardicreative.com/blog/2011/06/thank-you-apple/

http://web.me.com/jjlbryant/Jon_Bryant_Photography_&_Films/Blog/Entries/2011/6/23_A_lesson_in_marketing_Final_Cut_Pro_X.html
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/mcauliffe_kevin/FCPX-1/video-tutorial
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/22/final_cut_pro_x_draws_mixed_reactions_from_users_professionals.html
http://wideopencamera.com/cameras/fcpx-first-look-beetle-spec-spot-screen-grabs-and-more/
http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/434-the-top-ten-editors-concerns-about-final-cut-pro-x
http://masteringfilm.com/final-cut-pro-x-a-dream-for-dslr-filmmakers/#.TgSTtUP7AfI.twitter
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/macbreak-weekly/id179237749#
http://yourmaclifeshow.com/10GM/YML_10GM_110625.mp3

 

[Sam Posten]

You must be new here....
http://www.petitiononline.com/finalcut/petition.html