Any Final Cut Pro users here? (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

As expected, DSLR crowd loves it:


But is it pro?

 

[mattCR]

The last youtube link of yours Sam is -terrible-. I had arguments that don't really make a point.

This is an interesting take by a pro: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3145700?tstart=0

I am currently a producer for the NBA and a former segment director on ABC's Jimmy Kimmel Live. I started editing on 3/4" U-matic video tape years ago and now work with tapeless acquisition formats such as RED, the Canon MK II, and Sony XDCAM cameras. I do not currently have nor have I EVER had ANY problems adapting to new technologies and new directions in my field of work. The ability to adapt to changes in the industry keeps you competitive and insures you won't be left behind.




That being said, I am extremely worried about Apple and their dedication to its pro users. I have been a loyal Apple user since Mac OS System 6. Sacrificing functionality for simplicity is not always a good thing. Over the past two decades Microsoft Windows has been known solely as a creature of function, and a very frustrating one at that. I fell in love with Apple because they have always strived to achieve perfect harmony in the marriage of form WITH function. Their products were simple and powerful. Final Cut Pro X marks a defined shift in Apple's priorities (though when you look at Apple's history, this has been coming for a while). It is now very clear that Apple wants to be a consumer products company. It's probably a matter of time until the Mac OS and the iOS merge. Mac OS X Lion will be the first step towards that transition.




Fox Sports and the NBA invested in multiple Mac Pros and Final Cut Studio suites powered by Final Cut servers. After Apple discontinued their servers, we all began to worry about Apple's dedication to their professional customers. Final Cut X is another step towards Apple abandoning the very user base that helped keep them alive for 20 years. Fox Sports and the NBA will more than likely cease using Final Cut due to the lack of professional features in Final Cut X and the discontinuation of their media server. This has nothing to do with learning a new, modern system and everything to do with Final Cut X being a subpar product absent of the tools we need to GET THE JOB DONE.

 

[Sam Posten]

Links are not necessarily endorsements!
Today's batch:
http://www.onerivermedia.com/blog/?p=322
http://16x9cinema.com/blog/2011/6/27/digital-convergence-episode-45-the-final-cut-pro-x-chronicle.html
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/fcp-x-audio-tutorial-part-1-adding-sound-and-music-to-your-final-cut-pro-x-projects-and-using-snapping-to-control-placement-on-the-timeline/
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/fcp-x-audio-tutorial-part-2-using-final-cut-pro-x%E2%80%99s-audio-and-music-fading-tools/
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/how-to-screw-up-a-product-launch-the-final-cut-pro-x-backlash-videos/

 

[DavidJ]

I can't remember if we've talked about it in this thread, but the app store only distribution is causing headaches for any organization with more than one install or anyone on a volume licensing plan. Regardless of what you think of FCP X the way this has been handle was not well thought out. This was the message I just got from one of our IT guys:

I just heard back from Apple regarding Final Cut Pro. Volume licensing is not ready to handle this currently and it is expected that it will be at least a couple of weeks before we see anything on this.

 

[Sam Posten]

They just announced how Lion will handle Volume and business licensing, give it time:
http://9to5mac.com/2011/06/17/apple-explains-how-educators-and-business-upgrade-to-os-x-lion/#more-75879

 

[mattCR]

I get the feeling they should have just held off releasing FCPX until Lion.

 

[DavidJ]

I get the feeling they should have just held off releasing FCPX until Lion.

Yep.

 

[Sam Posten]

Apple put up a FAQ regarding a lot of the issues, officially confirms FCP7 will work fine on Lion:
http://9to5mac.com/2011/06/29/apple-officially-responds-to-final-cut-pro-x-complaints-with-new-faq-website/
http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/06/28/adobe-welcomes-final-cut-pro-users-with-open-arms/
Some more good links:
http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/
http://bladeronner.com/2011/06/29/fcpx-and-the-death-of-final-cut-pro-7-is-all-vincent-laforets-fault-or-why-i-think-fcpx-is-aimed-squarely-at-photographers/
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/06/final-cut-pro-x-faq-eases-fears-of-some-confirms-those-of-others.ars
2 hour discussion and demo on Mac Break:

Review of the Ripple training:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_tut_ripple_stone.html

 

[mattCR]

Apple's FAQ is frankly kind of dissappointing. Lots of "We're working on it" "There will be an upgrade" With no ETAs at all. It's good that FCP7 will work in Lion; most had doubted this because it currently doesn't work correctly in the developers Lion releases.. that is, it works but crashes like crazy.

Apple's one line is almost as though they are oblivious to reality:

"Can I share projects with other editors?
Yes. You have several options for sharing projects. You can hand over just the project file, and the recipient can reconnect the project to his or her own copies of the Event."

Yes.. you can share, as long as you copy everything over to their local storage. Sorry, no support for SANs or Network Storage.. so you'll have to bundle and swap every time (and risk versioning problems) Suck it.

The push for 3rd party plugins for most of this just rapidly drives up cost.. so the $299 price barrier really isn't. It is nice that FCP7 will run in Lion, and they'll sort that out; but it's still officially unsupported and copies were supposed to be returned to apple so it isn't for sale..

It's a good first start. They still need: ETAs, a plan of action, and then to allow people to still buy FCP7 through official channels.

 

[Sam Posten]

That's not going to happen, you must be new here. If you want answers and a company that is going to kowtow to your whims, go to Avid or Premiere. Apple couldn't be more clear.

And back then the same questions were being asked as now – “Doesn’t Apple care about the high-end professional market?”
In a word, no. Not really. Not enough to focus on it as a primary business.
Let’s talk economics first. There’s what, maybe 10,000 ‘high-end’ editors in the world? That’s probably being generous. But the number of people who would buy a powerful editing package that’s more cost-effective and easier to learn/use than anything else that’s out there? More. Lots more. So, a $1000 high-end product vs. a $300 product for a market that’s at least an order of magnitude larger. Clearly makes sense, even though I’d claim that the dollars involved are really just a drop in the bucket either way for Apple.
...
Apple isn’t about a few people in Hollywood having done something cool on a Mac (and then maybe allowing Apple to talk about it). No, Apple is about thousands and thousands of people having done something cool on their own Mac and then wanting to tell everyone about it themselves. It’s become a buzzword but I’ll use it anyway – viral marketing.
And really, from a company perspective high-end customers are a pain in the ass. Before Apple bought Shake, customer feedback drove about 90% of the features we’d put into the product. But that’s not how Apple rolls – for them a high end customers are high-bandwidth in terms of the attention they require relative to the revenue they return. After the acquisition I remember sitting in a roomful of Hollywood VFX pros where Steve told everybody point-blank that we/Apple were going to focus on giving them powerful tools that were far more cost-effective than what they were accustomed to… but that the relationship between them and Apple wasn’t going to be something where they’d be driving product direction anymore. Didn’t go over particularly well, incidentally, but I don’t think that concerned Steve overmuch…

 

[mattCR]

It's the obvious conclusion, I just of course speak for clients I unfortunately know of one who I can basically guarantee is going to bail as a result; too bad. They were good to work with. Good for me on the other end, though.. them buying up rounds of Avid equipment works to help make my future boat payment.

Originally Posted by Sam Posten
That's not going to happen, you must be new here. If you want answers and a company that is going to kowtow to your whims, go to Avid or Premiere. Apple couldn't be more clear.

 

[DavidJ]

Yeah, the FAQ didn't exactly fill my heart with warm fuzzys.

Can I send my project to a sound editing application such as Pro Tools?
Yes; you can export your project in OMF or AAF format using Automatic Duck Pro Export FCP 5.0. More information is available on the Automatic Duck website: http://automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/.

Don't say yes when something that was possible without a third party product is now only possible using a third party product.
Maybe I'm being a little harsh since Automatic Duck has been improving on the export functions for some time now, but the fact was you could export audio on previous versions for sweetening. Even if it was just to Soundtrack Pro.

 

[Sam Posten]

Interesting take:
http://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class
And a funny one:

thewozniak The Fake Wozniak
FCP X is a professional software choice if you're editing bday parties and cat videos for YouTube

 

[Sam Posten]

2.5 hour free tutorial
http://nofilmschool.com/2011/06/final-cut-pro-heres-2-5-hours-free-training/

 

[Sam Posten]

Film Riot checks in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JBZXQV7hTI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Brian W. Ralston]

If editors aren't worried about their job security, they should be. I stand by my original assertion that part of the anger stems from FCP X lowering the entry barrier into Pro editing.

I guarantee you it has nothing to do with this. Many people out there in Post Production are not really at the "Pro" level in the true sense of the word. They may very well want to be there and are working to be there. And in the next many years a handful will join the ranks. But the true Pros use features and have requirements that are there for a reason. EDLs are antiquated yes. But that is how departments share edit changes with one another. It works. Everyone knows how to do it. And no studio is going to risk some unproven, untested new fangled way of doing things on their multi-million dollar movie or TV show just because Apple says it should be done differently from now on.
I read on one forum where some Apple fan guy was saying that using Tape was "so 1990's and that 'real editors' should get current and stop using it." Well...know why it is used? Because someone high up at the company insuring the film or TV show using it has determined that TAPE is the best format for archiving, transferring data, reliability over time, etc...If they want to insure their multi-million dollar project (which they have to do)...they will use these proven formats. They will use tape in these cases. Sure everything is on hard drives and edited for the ease of use...but it has to back up to tape...or archive to tape. I still get contracts for my film scores which want me to deliver the music stems on digital DAT tapes or DA-88 tapes believe it or not. Even though it is all done digitally on an HD...they still want some form of tape in the end.
So...FCP X can't interface with these systems. Combined with the fact that FCP7 is end of life'd and no additional support or seats can be purchased on it.
Result: FCP X won't be used by the Pro's on their projects. At least not until it can do those things.
It has nothing to do with Apple declaring there is a better way. The facilities who invested hundreds of thousands (if not millions)...in facilities built around FCP...well...they see an uncertain future. They can't do business like that. They will not get the work contract if a studio gets nervous because they want to use their new FCP X program that will not interface with other programs and other facilities used day in and day out in Post-Production...like Telecine, Thomson Spirit, DaVinci...Pro Tools, etc...etc...
So they will all probably just go to the industry proven editing standard Avid Media Composer at $2500+ a license because in the long run... knowing it will work and be supported in the industry, it will save them money over time. Avid is much better at handling tens of thousands of objects anyway. Which many HUGE productions have.
This uncertainty is why they are mad. Has nothing to do with worrying about lowering any entry barrier. Editor is a union job. Do you know how hard it is to break into it at that truly "Pro" level? Pretty much you have to apprentice to a big name editor and when he dies...you may get his previous clients. It takes a lifetime of known credits to get on the "studio approved list." And studios do not invest in unproven entities...not software and certainly not people. Too much money is on the line. No one is worried that some kid on FCP X will take their job. That thought is laughable.

 

[Sam Posten]

Brian, I trust your judgement implicitly, I think you have experience here that none of us could ever hope to match. Nobody denies that Apple handled this VERY VERY poorly and it is causing confusion that affects real professionals livelihoods.
But...
Just step back a second and compare the the -kind- of comments that you are making to the kinds of comments that came prior to the iPhone. That came prior to the iPad. Focus on the past and even the current is something that blinds to the possibilities of the future. I think Avid and Adobe are smart to capitalize on the anger thats out there and I think Apple deserves all of it for cutting real pros off from buying new seats of FCP7 today. That is really really dumb. I've called for Apple to make FCP7 free as in beer, and while I dont think that will happen it would go a looooong way to helping people whose jobs rely on 7 ride out the birthing hitches to FCPx. But I wonder how many of those pros who are abandoning Apple today are going to be kicking themselves for dropping $2500 a seat on Avid less than a year down the road. How much money will be spent retraining of Premiere (which lets be fair was NOT a pro level app prior to CS5, just 18 months ago!) only to want to shift back to FCPX when it does things that Premiere and Avid don't even have on their roadmaps today?

 

[Sam Posten]

Or look at it from this guy's perspective:
http://blog.nicedissolve.com/2011/07/why-apple-is-worth-defending/

 

[Brian W. Ralston]

I see the arguments Sam...but "the biz" doesn't really care about what it will be tomorrow...they care about what it is today. If FCPX ever adds the features Pros need for their established and proven workflows...they will come back. If it does not...they will stay elsewhere with their tools.
Right now...for many pro editors...being excited for FCPX is like being excited for Sharp's Quattron "4 color technology" HD TVs.
I mean...it has Red, Green, Blue AND YELLOW. So it's better right? LOL!

 

[Sam Posten]

It remains very interesting watching the fallout.
http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/475-my-life-in-fcp