Adire Audio Dharman...more bang for the buck than any other non-DIY sub out there?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bob_A, Jan 24, 2002.

  1. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Have you guys seen the Tom Nousaine data on the Adire Audio Dharman?

    From Adire Audio's website:

    We sent a Dharman to legendary reviewer Tom Nousaine to measure. After all was said and done, here's the results of the 10% SPL tests:

    Average SPL 25-62 Hz: 107.9 dB

    Average SPL 20-62 Hz: 105.9 dB

    Bass Extension: 20 Hz @ 96 dB SPL

    Maximum Output: 114.6 dB SPL @ 32 Hz

    Here's the 10% THD limit SPLs Tom measured in his large 7500 cubic foot room:

    20 Hz 96 dB SPL

    25 Hz 102 dB SPL

    32 Hz 114.6 dB SPL (system at maximum)

    40 Hz 111.8 dB SPL (system at maximum)

    50 Hz 108.1 dB SPL

    62 Hz 103.1 dB SPL

    Tom summed it up: "This system has excellent output especially at this price point. Both output and extension put the unit in the top quartile of subwoofers without regard to cost." None too shabby for a sub-$600 subwoofer!

    You can compare this to the others on the data list:

    __________________________________________________ _________

    STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99 / 25hz~106

    VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9

    20-39cs - 109.5 / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB

    VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1

    MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102

    Paradigm PW2200 - 108 / 20hz~84 / 25hz ~104dB (112.8dB peak)

    VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1 25hz~102.1dB

    Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz

    VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99

    HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz

    HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB

    Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db / 20hz~92(112.4dB peak)

    KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 *

    Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89

    POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90

    Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95

    BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 *

    MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95

    VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak)

    JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95

    KLIPSCH KSW12 - 104.9 / 25hz~90

    Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85

    Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94

    BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz *

    PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94

    Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak)

    Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB

    VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87

    MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86

    ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85

    INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak)

    KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90

    PSB subsonic 3i - 100 / 28hz *

    MISSION ms70asa - 100/32hz~92dB

    SUNFIRE Jr. - 100 / 25hz~95

    VELODYNE VLF810 - 100 / 25hz~91

    Canbridge - 100 / 20hz ~82dB

    POLK PSW350 - 99.8 / 25hz~82

    VELODYNE FSR12 - 99.7 / 20hz

    JAMO E 8sub - 99 / 25hz~ 86dB

    VELODYNE VA1012 - 99 / 29hz

    JBL PB10 - 99 / 25hz 82

    POLK RMDS-1 - 98.6 / 25hz- 77

    VELODYNE FSR10 - 98.4 / 20hz

    BW asw2500 - 98 / 25hz~86dB

    ENERGY ES12xl - 98 / 28hz *

    Paradigm PDR10 - 98 / 25hz

    PHASE tech power8 - 98 / 25hz~84

    Polk psw250 - 97.3 / 32hz~91

    ATHENA S3 - 97.0 / 25hz~87

    Energy S8.2 - 97 / 25hz ~82

    VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81

    MIRAGE frx s10 - 97 / 25hz~84

    JAMO sw505 - 97

    Klispch KSW10 - 96.9 / 25hz~85

    TANNOY PS110 - 96.8 / 20hz~71 / 25hz~84

    CANTON AS25 - 96.8 / 25hz~80

    MK V-1250thx - 96 / 25hz~86

    Atlantic technology 4.5 - 96 / 25hz~82

    ATHENA S2 - 96 / 25hz~87

    ACI titan - 96dB / 25hz~80

    PSB alphasubzero - 95.2 / 32hz~88

    Aura Lss-107A - 95.2 / 25hz~73

    Celestion cswII - 95 / 25hz~78

    GALLO MPS-150 - 95.0 / 25hz~86

    ENERGY ENCORE - 94.4 / 25hz~78

    ENERGY XL8 - 94 / 25hz~78

    POLK PS-120 - 94 / 32hz -no SPL given

    Wharfedale Modus - 93.1dB

    Paradigm PD8 91.4 / 25hz~73dB

    MK k9 - 90.1 / 25hz~77

    Cerwin Vega hts15 - 89 (107 from 40-100hz) / 39hz

    ATHENA P1 88.5/ 32hz~85.5

    -----------the following use a 25-50hz range----------

    Based on the data...the Dharman seems like a bargain for a sub-$600 subwoofer. Maybe the most bang-for-the-buck that you can currently find with a non-DIY subwoofer? What do you guys think?
     
  2. JerryW

    JerryW Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, it's a monster, especially for
     
  3. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    I'd have to consider my labor to be worth $15 per hour, and it'd take me about 8 to do it right, I'd expect.

    $600 - $120 = $480 for materials.

    Driver = $130

    Amp = (?) $200 ?

    Materials = $30 - 50 including finishes

    Maybe $380 + ?

    So for an extra $100 and a phone call I can have it delivered, plug-and play. Money back g'tee,

    Sounds like a deal!
     
  4. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Yes, the Dharman is an excellent value in consumer subwoofers anywhere near its price range. Basically, the performance of a Velodyne HGS15 for A LOT less money!

    Kyle Richardson

    Acoustic Visions
     
  5. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Can anyone tell me...how come nobody talks about this sub??? [​IMG]
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    The adire looks to be a great unit,pretty much what everyone expected output wise.

    Of course Bob didn't bother to post the response measurements that TN measured...so it's hard to compare the response to other good units in the same price range. And TN also mentioned the grille began to bang against the driver a dB or two from max output....but Bob didn't post that either.(but I see Bob decided to use MY list to make some point here...typical) So you're looking at about the same measured output as the HSU VTF-2 before the driver bangs inbto the grille. From what I remember, the VTF-2 had a big advantage in response performance too.

    Of course several subs on the list are represented by very old test data now. The 20-39cs has been improved extensively,and the VTF-2 has a new driver and some amp mods too(the servo15 and titan are two others that have been improved). Whereas the adire numbers are extremely recent...so I would factor that in.

    Being close to the performance/cost ratio of the HSU is a good goal to shoot for though...well done.

    TV
     
  7. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    There is always a catch when it comes to Adire Audio, isn't there Tom? I've never seen anyone provide response data charts for any of those other subs when comparing them on these forums. In that older monster thread, Dan Wiggins pointed out what could have led to the problem, and basically assured us that there were no problems with the frequency response of the subwoofer. And since when have you claimed "ownership" of a data list? Is that list patent-pending? [​IMG] That is news to me. I've seen probably at least a dozen people reference "your" data list on various forums...and I have never seen you jump on their back. If I can recall, one of the reviewers also mentioned something about some (grill?) noise with the SVS. So sure, you can ultimately always find faults with a product. As for how much some subs have been improved...sure, even Adire has probably been trying to improve their sub...but this is clearly something we cannot quantify. Going strictly by the data (as many, including yourself, have been known to do in the past), it would take dual SVS 20-39CS's ($1200?) to match the Adire Audio Dharman at 20Hz...not bad for a sub-$600 subwoofer [​IMG]
     
  8. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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  9. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Bob,the sad part is your using the fine adire product for your current agenda against svs. You got spanked by another forums moderator for your classless posting style in a debate with me..and the next day you are the new cheerleader for a svs competitor....lotsa class bob.

    there's not really a need to provide response charts because all the data is PUBLISHED bob. Unlike the adire data of course.

    you questioned Ron's integrity at AVS recently because he pulled a quote from a PUBLISHED review to post a the website. Here,you take numbers from a website that has ERASED half of TN's measurements and inserted their OWN response curve! But that's ok...and Ron is *misleading* people simply because of your new agenda against SVS now.

    Improvements are easy to *qualify* Bob,as both SVS and HSu have outlined them extensively.Of course,if you have an agenda...then you won't care about fairness in these comparisons.

    JG, ok...so the adire would have about the same measured output as the vtf-2 then...before you run into this issue. Both the HSU and the 20-39 extended to
     
  10. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Tom, I didn't even mention SVS in my initial post. Why are you trying to turn this into an issue about SVS? Your accusations against me are just not true. I have never questioned anyone's integrity. I think they understand this at HTS, and they have given me privileges to post again. If you think that I have an agenda against SVS, then you are sorely mistaken. If you have any further personal questions for me, feel free to email me.
    So...back to ADIRE AUDIO...seems like a bargain to me...and it looks great too!
    http://www.adireaudio.com/rpd/dharman.htm
     
  11. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    I think the measured response of the Dharman was something like 49-120Hz +/- 3dB... but that doesn't seem right, and I think they sent another sub for Nousaine to measure. Any word on those results? I'd think the Shiva would extend into the 18-20Hz range in a box of that size. Also... is the very high output at 20Hz (sans grill noise) because of the additional port area? (I think it has 2 3" flared ports.) And didn't SVS correct that 'issue' in the CS+ series with 3 3" ports?... There was a very big discussion about this a while ago, I think.
     
  12. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    You are correct Michael...apparently that is not right...I believe that Adire has measured the response as -3db at 21Hz.
     
  13. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Hey, Bob! Are you thinking of buying an Adire? Go for it, dude. But I have a bit of advice for you first:

    (1) Make sure you find out if that sub will sound good with your current receiver. Receiver matching with that sub is CRUCIAL, as I understand it.

    (2) Regardless of what the manufacturer recommends, buy two subs and put 'em in opposite corners. Stereo bass, doncha know.

    (3) Oh yeah, online purchases are a crapshoot. I mean sheesh, dude, don't you have any stores in your area that sell subwoofers?!?!

    Good luck on the subwoofer purchase and please do report back with your findings.

    --Steve
     
  14. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Very clever Steve...very clever. First of all, if I someday do purchase an external sub, I will almost certainly use it primarly for movies, and I will use it to effectively extend the frequency response of my system and to add shake down real low. I do not need to have "stereo" external subs because I already have built-in "stereo" subs. As for matching of components...I feel that it is not really necessary to match subwoofer with electronics. As for purchasing online...I was referring to main channel loudspeakers, not external subs. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me.
    Now...back to Adire Audio... [​IMG]
     
  15. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Bob,

    Don't forget that the SVS (listed as 20-39CS in the list) outperforms the Adire in every objective category and can be delivered (with purchase of an amplifier from parts express) for comparable price.

    So, yeah the Dharman is good, but the SV 20-39CS measured better.

    Regards,
     
  16. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    John, going strictly by the data (which has been done many many many times in the past), it would take about 2 SVS 20-39's to match 1 Adire Audio Dharman at 20Hz. Also...this TN data is presumably on the 20-39 with Sampson amp...which costs $799 if I am not mistaken...a full $200 MORE than the Adire unit (which means that the SVS 20-39 with Sampson amp is roughly 33.3% more expensive than the Dharman). I am certainly not knocking SVS...I am sure that it is a fantastic product...but I am just curious why it seems that no one talks about Adire Audio, even though it seems to be a bargain.
     
  17. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Actually I posted the number for Nousaine at the AVS Forum thread before I realized they were hidden with no SVS reference just the model designation.

    However, you still have not reconciled how this purchase (vs. a typical speaker) is not a crapshoot when ordering direct.

    It would appear you have different standards for different manufacturers - which is fine so long as this is clear.

    I notice you've shied away from posting a topic like this at the other board.

    Regards,
     
  18. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>John, going strictly by the data (which has been done many many many times in the past), it would take about 2 SVS 20-39's to match 1 Adire Audio Dharman at 20Hz.
     
  19. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    John, you are way off-base...my arguments hold for any manufacturer. Email me and we can discuss it. End of story.

    Tom, this is true...based on the data, both products seem to be excellent performers. I really have no idea why some people seem to think that this is an anti-SVS thread. I have complimented Ron and Tom about their products and customer service in the past. In this thread, the main thing I was wondering about was why it seems that no one talks about the Adire Audio Dharman.
     

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