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20th Century Fox's CinemaScope films

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Thomas T, Jul 11, 2007.

  1. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    I believe Roland dived at far deeper depths than Sophia did. Reef emphasizes the dangers of going beneath the 12 mile reef.
     
  2. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

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    Well you don’t give Tecnicolor credit if it’s not filmed in Technicolor, and Beneath the 12 Mile Reef proudly gives it a solo credit. It’s not the only one either.
     
  3. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    As a child in the 1950s I became very aware when seeing Fox films that DeLuxe color was never as brilliant as Technicolor, I always enjoyed the Fox fanfare and CinemaScope screen but was always disappointed when seeing that Deluxe color credit on the title.
     
  4. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

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    Thomas I was being tongue in cheek!
     
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  5. Message #105 of 153 Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Jimbo64

    Jimbo64 Screenwriter

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    It wasn’t filmed in Technicolor, it may have been processed in or had prints by Technicolor but no CinemaScope film was ever filmed in Technicolor. The negative used was Eastman type 5247 with prints by Technicolor. The blu-ray was made from a 4K scan of the negative so what the disc presents is Eastman Color.
     
  6. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    It's not unlike the situation in the late 1950s when films advertised as in CinemaScope were actually not. They were in Panavision. But used the CinemaScope in their advertising. For example, the 1959 film The Big Circus with Victor Mature and Rhonda Fleming was advertised on their posters as being in CinemaScope when actually it was shot in Panavision. I stand to be corrected but this continued for several years before Panavision was duly credited.
     
  7. Jim*Tod

    Jim*Tod Supporting Actor

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    A lot of times the lenses were made by Panavision and this was credited even if the movie said the show was in Cinemascope. I am not sure but this probably had to do some licensing issues. Fox itself dropped the Cinemascope name and went with Panavision instead around 1967... either CAPRICE or IN LIKE FLINT was the last film with the Cinemascope credit. The truth was the Panavision made better lenses with less distortion. Cinemascope lenses, at least the initial ones, tended to make actors look fatter in close up, a phenomena called "Cinemascope mumps." Reportedly Sinatra insisted on Panavision lenses for this reason for Fox's VON RYAN'S EXPRESS. (For much more info I highly recommend the American Widescreen Museum site... probably the last word on all the various processes).

    As for the Technicolor versus Deluxe Color issue: I agree with Jimbo64 that no Cinemascope film was ever shot in Technicolor. But if the prints were made by Technicolor probably the famed imbition printing process was still in use until the mid 70's (the last film shown in that process was GODFATHER 2) the color would probably had more saturation compared to a Deluxe color print and would have not faded as quickly or as badly. From what I have read though the problem with Cinemascope Technicolor prints is that on a large screen, sometimes the image would be softer, the Deluxe sharper.
     
  8. Jack Theakston

    Jack Theakston Supporting Actor

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    IN TECHNICOLOR = Shot in Technicolor, and print by Technicolor.

    COLOR BY TECHNICOLOR or PRINT BY TECHNICOLOR = Prints were by Technicolor.

    The first generation CinemaScope lenses were incompatible with the Three-Strip cameras.
     
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  9. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    The wonderful book, Glorious Technicolor by Fred E. Basten, list not only Beneath The 12-Mile Reef as being produced in Technicolor along with several other Fox CinemaScope being produced in Technicolor including The Robe and How To Marry A Millionaire. It appears that by 1955 Fox switched all their films to Deluxe.

    (The book was published for the 90th Anniversary Of Technicolor with their assistance.)
     
  10. Jack Theakston

    Jack Theakston Supporting Actor

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    A select few early CinemaScope titles were shot twice with “flat” cameras. THE ROBE was shot in an Academy ratio version in three-strip. But again I maintain that NO CinemaScope films were shot three-strip.
     
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  11. Jim*Tod

    Jim*Tod Supporting Actor

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    To add to the confusion, some films were printed by both Deluxe and by Technicolor but still credited to Deluxe... apparently many of the first run prints for THE KING AND I were credited to Deluxe but actually printed by Technicolor. But again... both Jack Theakson and Jimbo64 are correct.... no Cinemascope film was shot in the strip Technicolor. Indeed the last American film shot in three strip was made in 1955. I love the early Cinemascope films which did try new things.... perhaps the best early examples of creative use of the process were Cukor's A STAR IS BORN and Kazan's EAST OF EDEN.
     
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  12. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

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    So Color by Technicolor on Prince Valiant, Hell and High Water, River of No Return, How To Marry a Millionaire,Beneath The 12 Mile Reef, King of the Khyber Rifles, Three Young Texans, The Robe, Demetrius and the Gladiators are all lies. No mate, all sources say a Technicolor movie. Eastman Color a version of which became De Luxe, was first used by Fox on New Faces in 1954.
     
  13. RichMurphy

    RichMurphy Second Unit

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    It's always a challenge to differentiate between Technicolor the process and Technicolor the laboratory.

    I remember going to the late great S. Klein in Alexandria VA because they briefly sold Technicolor Super 8 cartridges for my movie camera. It was so cool to make a credit saying "in Technicolor". (and no, my Super 8 camera was not a three-strip camera LOL)
     
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  14. Jimbo64

    Jimbo64 Screenwriter

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    They were all single strip Eastman Color negative, the 3 strip Technicolor cameras were not compatible with the CinemaScope anamorphic lens. The prints may have been made by Technicolor but that’s it. The Technicolor cameras were still in use in the early 50’s but only for flat productions.
     
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  15. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Cinematographer

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    You are correct - all those early Fox scope films were Eastman and Technicolor made dye transfer prints.
    Fox scope films I would kill to see in any format/
    A certain Smile
    The Racers
    Best Things Life are Free
    In love and War This film was originally broacast flat with true stereo sound.
    Later redone letterbox but in mono.
    Would love to see this widescreen and stereo.
    Soldier of Fortune - restored color on the dvd release. Package says it is 5.1 but something went wrong. All sound is in the center channel except for the surround which occasionallyu come on. OOPS!!!!!
     
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  16. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

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    Yet again a gorgeous transfer of Three Coins in The Fountain shown on BBC1HD today. If theofficial release so many of you are waiting for is as good you’ll be very happy!
     
  17. Message #117 of 153 Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    I saw some of it but is it from the 4K transfer? Picture was rather soft and the color looks a bit washed out to me. The BBC have certainly shown it in past years'.
     
  18. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

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    Looked gorgeous to me, and I have a big screen 4K tv that shows up flaws in anything.
    Very much a movie of its time, women only want to get married, everybody smokes, most interiors shot in Hollywood, and so many studio back projections cut into location shot sequences that stick out. I still don’t understand that. I mean if you’re on the Spanish Steps, hardly anyone else about unlike today, why not film the close ups after the wide shots? So much of the film has the principal actors actually in Rome, unlike Doris Day in Paris in Caprice, where it was clearly an extra in a big hat in Paris while Doris was in the same hat in Hollywood with back projection!
     
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  19. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    I apologize for nitpicking :) but ..... It was not an "extra" (an outmoded term btw, it's background actor) but the correct term is body double. As a SAG member in good standing and having done body double work as well as stand in work and background work, they are distinctly separate categories and different pay levels.
     
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  20. Worth

    Worth Cinematographer

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    As with most everything, it comes down to cost. It’s a lot cheaper to film a few establishing shots on location and then move into the studio to do the rest than it does to remain on location for weeks at a time.
     

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