Will we ever see restorations of the original 35mm prints of Disney animation classics? (1 Viewer)

[Vahan_Nisanain]

I'd like to bump this thread to show a comparison between an exquisite HDTV version of Lady and the Tramp and the Bluray.

Well, unfortunately the HDTV is cropped, but you can see the extensive changes made on the Bluray.

Even lines are disappearing (notice the lines in Lady's legs) or others are accented (Tramp's lines)!

How natural does the HDTV look and how in harmony seem the characters with the background without standing out as on the Bluray.


http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/109823

Even with the cropping, the HDTV version IS how the film should look like.


Shame on you, Disney!

 

[Dick]

Not until Lassiter gets replaced. He's the one calling the shots on how the blu-ray restorations should look.

I give great credit to Lassiter for having gone ahead with PRINCESS AND THE FROG after the studio had pretty much disengaged from cel animation, but I also have to admonish him somewhat for giving up after that, despite the fact that PATF did decent box office and produced a fair profit. It just didn't produce a LION-KING-like profit, which no doubt led to CEO's to put pressure on him to stop cel animation in favor of CGI. He caved. That was that. End of Disney cel animation for the most part. A grand cinema tradition cut off at the knees.

 

[Konstantinos]

I would be really interested in the opinion of Mr. Harris too.

Mr. Harris what do you think is the best way to release an animation film on Bluray?

Should the grain be left intact (as eg. in the Gulliver's Travels Bluray by Thunderbean) or they should be degrained, rotoscoped and repainted (I'm not sure what is exactly the procedure) as in Disney?

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

I'm not Mr. Harris, but of course the grain should be left in! It is part of the film!


Without grain, film looks all waxy and wooden!

 

[Konstantinos]

I'm not Mr. Harris, but of course the grain should be left in! It is part of the film!


Without grain, film looks all waxy and wooden!

Well, some people argue that the animation films weren't supposed to have grain and so it's better to see them as they were painted originally.

But the thing I love too in these grainy versions is that you can see every brush stroke in the paints which changes in every frame, and that gives it life. In the degrained Bluray this effect is vanished, because they have repainted it on top.


See also here a screenshot i found on the net between 35mm and Bluray!

I can't believe the change of grey color to purple, to match the current pop trends!

How is the Bluray true to the original look?

 

[MatthewA]

All they needed to do was remove cel dust and fix registration errors, but they just couldn't stop there.

 

[Raul Marquez]

See post below.

 

[Raul Marquez]

Well, some people argue that the animation films weren't supposed to have grain and so it's better to see them as they were painted originally.
But the thing I love too in these grainy versions is that you can see every brush stroke in the paints which changes in every frame, and that gives it life. In the degrained Bluray this effect is vanished, because they have repainted it on top.

See also here a screenshot i found oeen 35mm and Bluray!

Well, some people argue that the animation films weren't supposed to have grain and so it's better to see them as they were painted originally.

But the thing I love too in these grainy versions is that you can see every brush stroke in the paints which changes in every frame, and that gives it life. In the degrained Bluray this effect is vanished, because they have repainted it on top.


See also here a screenshot i found on the net between 35mm and Bluray!

I can't believe the change of grey color to purple, to match the current pop trends!

How is the Bluray true to the original look?

I for one feel that the post on the left with the grey dress looks more natural and pleasing to the eye.

 

[Robert Harris]

If new prints were made today, they would look absolutely nothing like original prints


I believe they would be quite unpleasant to the eye.


RAH

 

[Konstantinos]

If new prints were made today, they would look absolutely nothing like original prints


I believe they would be quite unpleasant to the eye.


RAH

I'm sorry, i didn't understand what you meant (or implied).

Are you by any chance suggesting that the original color of the dress was indeed purple and that the initial transfer to film couldn't replicate that color?



And what do you feel is the best way to approach a restoration on animation films?

 

[Konstantinos]

Although I'm not knowledgable about these things, I believe that this is how a restoration of an animation film should look like!

What do you think?

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Watership-Down-Blu-ray/113617/#Screenshots

 

[Robert Harris]

Although I'm not knowledgable about these things, I believe that this is how a restoration of an animation film should look like!
What do you think?
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Watership-Down-Blu-ray/113617/#Screenshots

Must disagree. Was never meant to be represented by tiny still frames on my phone

 

[Konstantinos]

Must disagree. Was never meant to be represented by tiny still frames on my phone

I'm sorry?

Well, these are 1080p resolution screenshots for anyone that is a member in that forum.

For anyone else they are 720p.

Maybe you should see them on a desktop computer with a larger screen?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

You will find that screenshots are highly controversial around here, as most of us prefer to see the film in motion to see how grain is represented.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

You will find that screenshots are highly controversial around here, as most of us prefer to see the film in motion to see how grain is represented.

Well said.


More pre-release opinions have been wrong because they were

judged on a single screenshot.

 

[Konstantinos]

Oh, i see..

Well, even so, there might be small differences due to encoding and stuff, but the sure thing is that i don't think the grain will disappear once in motion.


I myself, have never seen a Bluray that in motion looks worse, or better than the screenshots that represent it.


But anyway, since you like, i'll comply with the "rules".

This is then how I believe an animation restoration should be:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Fleischer-Classics-Featuring-Gullivers-Travels-Blu-ray/82468/#Screenshots

i own the Bluray and can tell you that it looks in motion like the screenshots.

 

[Randy Korstick]

This is also true when judging open matte versus the original theatrical widescreen. Screen shots may show heads partially cut or some information missing in animated films when in reality the screenshot is less than 1 second of film and not noticeable when in motion.

You will find that screenshots are highly controversial around here, as most of us prefer to see the film in motion to see how grain is represented.

 

[Robert Harris]

Oh, i see..

Well, even so, there might be small differences due to encoding and stuff, but the sure thing is that i don't think the grain will disappear once in motion.


I myself, have never seen a Bluray that in motion looks worse, or better than the screenshots that represent it.


But anyway, since you like, i'll comply with the "rules".

This is then how I believe an animation restoration should be:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Fleischer-Classics-Featuring-Gullivers-Travels-Blu-ray/82468/#Screenshots

i own the Bluray and can tell you that it looks in motion like the screenshots.

Unimpressive. FAR too contrasty, if one is to go by the frames.


The original negative would be essential to any restorative effort.


Why not use it?


RAH

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I believe the reason Thunderbean used a dye transfer print was because it was all they had access to. Gulliver, of course is PD, with original negatives either with Universal or Paramount. I agree that it looks too contrasty, but it is still a vast improvement over Koch Video's smeary, completely degrained, squashed and cropped to fit 16:9 screens version. This is where we butt up against the question of how much studios value certain assets.

 

[EddieLarkin]

Alright, let me try. THIS is how traditional animation should look on Blu-ray:*


http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Nausicaa-of-the-Valley-of-the-Wind-Blu-ray/10049/#Screenshots


*yes the caps are representative of the BD


As for 3 strip Technicolor, I think Warner's Looney Tunes Platinum sets turned out wonderfully (where applicable).