Upgrading from Blu-ray to UHD: Where do you draw the line? (1 Viewer)

[YANG]

well... a large percentage of the population in this little island state lives in public housing that isn't sized or designed friendly for projectors installation.
even if a small percentage do... majority of the consumers would choose TVs than projection because of day light or room light interference, since it's a culture watching TV together in a living room as a family together.
we don't live in independent landed housing where there would be basements for projection installation. individuals independence would often get criticized from the seniors living together, if we're enjoying our own entertainments with slams and bangs and in the darkness. seniors in the family under one roof, would be nagging about "noise pollution/disturbance".

 

[John Dirk]

For me, the upgrade is solely measured on mode of presentation. I have several flat screens in my home with native 4K resolution, ranging in size from 65" to 85" and have to say that at an acceptable viewing distance, many 4K titles 'improvement' is negligible at best. However, I also have a dedicated home theater set up in my lower level with an 8ft. high and 16" wide (for scope only, VistaVision, and Academy ratio obviously vary here) viewing screen and on that venue the virtues of 4K well outweigh anything Blu-ray is capable of offering.

That said, there have been some VERY fine Blu-ray mastering efforts over the decades that look positively spectacular even on that large format set-up. So, all I'm trying to say is that if you are completely satisfied with the way you have been viewing your content until now, I really don't see the point in spending again for 4K unless (A) you are a total purist for the visual representation and (B) have the necessary deep pockets to retool your collection as titles become available in the latest and greatest mode of presentation.

I think often we get caught up in how great something looks we forget that the primary focus of home theater viewing should be to become and stay engrossed in the virtuosity of its storytellers. Presentation surely ranks as part of that experience - but not all. Pride of workmanship in the content itself and performance, direction and screenwriting far outlast a razor-sharp image of two hours of your life you can never get back if the content is crap. Just saying.

Great post and I agree with everything you said. I will, however, reemphasize the audio aspect of UHD compared to most standard Blu Rays. If you want the best in audio [as well as video] you generally need to spring for the UHD version.

 

[John Dirk]

well... a large percentage of the population in this little island state lives in public housing that isn't sized or designed friendly for projectors installation.
even if a small percentage do... majority of the consumers would choose TVs than projection because of day light or room light interference, since it's a culture watching TV together in a living room as a family together.
we don't live in independent landed housing where there would be basements for projection installation. individuals independence would often get criticized from the seniors living together, if we're enjoying our own entertainments with slams and bangs and in the darkness. seniors in the family under one roof, would be nagging about "noise pollution/disturbance".

I assume this is in response to my prior post? I didn't mean to suggest there was anything wrong with or bad about whatever environment one chooses for their entertainment experience, only to point out that dedicated, light-controlled room can strengthen the case for UHD over standard Blu Ray.

 

[YANG]

certainly. no offense taken or made from your comment. yes... your pointing out of the benefit of projection over TV is certainly legit.
it's just that i'm trying to explain... in different environment, different places... or different countries, projection may not always be a pragmatic approach, if we're limited by living environment and conditions, and certainly... installation budgets.

 

[YANG]

...If you want the best in audio [as well as video] you generally need to spring for the UHD version.

well... you know well that higher definition of details(D) x running length duration(D) = (DD)Disc Density, right? certainly there will be options between 2 layer and 3 layer for mastering considerations, but how to keep it consistent on bit rates and options for high quality audios of our choice?

the most recent release, BATMAN 2022 in UHD comes not only with an Dolby ATMOS soundtrack, but also a slew of other languages in 5.1. Should those other audio languages are removed, and replaced with just native language DTS:X, there wouldn't be any open capacity to squeeze in a Auro3D track.
and... not forgetting the video part, was there any sacrifice on small percentage which consumers may not be able to tell on video quality unless there's another release out there with much higher bit rates that could put the title into comparison.

 

[Nick*Z]

Great post and I agree with everything you said. I will, however, reemphasize the audio aspect of UHD compared to most standard Blu Rays. If you want the best in audio [as well as video] you generally need to spring for the UHD version.

Absolutely. Could not agree more!

 

[JoshZ]

Interesting you would use that particular film as an example since it's among my favorites of the modern era. The Blu Ray is mixed in 7.1 DTS-HD MA [5.1 French and music] and does sound great but the Atmos mix on the UHD disc is simply superb. I can't say I noticed any bass deficiencies and neither RAH's initial comments or the BluRay.com review mention this as an issue.

You've just given me an excuse to cue up my UHD version so that I can check on this.

Update:
I watched the first 20 minutes or so of both my standard Blu Ray and my UHD version immediately after writing the initial post above. Why? Cause I'm a crazy film buff. Anyway, I can't say the Atmos track was lacking in any way on the UHD disc, bass or otherwise.

I believe it's been measured that the Oblivion UHD has been reduced in bass 10-15 dB compared to the older Blu-ray.

The original Top Gun is another movie that's been significantly bass-reduced for Atmos.

I honestly have no idea of any complaint of Atmos movies lacking bass. I must have at least 150 of them, and have never once felt they lacked impact.

I mean, how capable is your subwoofer? Movie soundtracks in general have less bass today than those from a decade or so ago. The trend started with Disney, around the time of Age of Ultron, which was hyper-compressed in dynamic range. The problem then spread throughout the industry, both for new movie soundtracks and remixes of older movies.

 

[OliverK]

Movie soundtracks in general have less bass today than those from a decade or so ago. The trend started with Disney, around the time of Age of Ultron, which was hyper-compressed in dynamic range. The problem then spread throughout the industry, both for new movie soundtracks and remixes of older movies.

There are different options built into devices for dynamic range compression. How ignorant do these people have to be to assume that people are too dumb to find those options and instead they compromise the soundtracks of their home video releases.

I guess we can be happy that we are still getting scope movies in scope even though there is a risk that some people are also unaware of the possibilities to zoom those movies up to the full height of their TV screen.

 

[John Dirk]

I believe it's been measured that the Oblivion UHD has been reduced in bass 10-15 dB compared to the older Blu-ray.

The original Top Gun is another movie that's been significantly bass-reduced for Atmos.



I mean, how capable is your subwoofer? Movie soundtracks in general have less bass today than those from a decade or so ago. The trend started with Disney, around the time of Age of Ultron, which was hyper-compressed in dynamic range. The problem then spread throughout the industry, both for new movie soundtracks and remixes of older movies.

I don't want to derail the thread or turn the tone argumentative but making statements like these with no supporting data is bad form.

I'm in no way challenging your perception, only pointing out that it may be just that.

 

[JohnRice]

I mean, how capable is your subwoofer?

Just a couple SVS SB-16 Ultras. Nuthin' special.

 

[Clinton McClure]

The original Top Gun is another movie that's been significantly bass-reduced for Atmos.

I have both the 30th Anniversary Blu-ray and the UHD of the original Top Gun. The Atmos mix on the UHD is more dynamic, sounds better, and loses none of the LFE from the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD tracks on the Blu-ray. As Sam Posten would say, “Shit blows up good!”

 

[Carl David]

I have around 20 or so 4k UHD discs but have yet to upgrade a movie from blu ray to 4k.

This is down to good fortune though because I only started "collecting" movies on disc a few years ago from scratch after working very hard for 10 years plus running a business etc.

Prior to that I had a lot of movies on DVD but disposed of that collection.

As I was lucky enough to avoid spending much money building a collection before the onset of 4k UHD I had yet to purchase many films that subsequently got released on 4k.

Therefore, movies such as 2001, The Matrix & Die Hard to name a few I purchased on 4k as I had not purchased them on blu ray to begin with.

I am not sure if I would have upgraded if I had already purchased those movies on blu ray, however.

In relation to the quality difference between the formats it is noticeable but obviously not the night and day difference we saw in the leap from DVD to blu ray. I think a lot of movies released on 4k though are not an improvement over the blu ray releases. Both due to how the movies were photographed and in some cases how the companies have made tweaks to the look of the film make some releases futile. If the companies think they can make a profit releasing any movie in 4k then obviously they will do so.

I have no problem with this.

I recently watched "Duel" on blu ray and was astounded at how beautiful the movie looked. One of the best I have seen on the format, actually. If that movie got released on 4k I don't think I would be convinced into making an upgrade.

I don't think there are any movies in my blu ray collection that make me think I would like a 4k version.

I have put off buying a few movies on blu ray in anticipation of future 4k releases. However, the blu ray releases were not favorably reviewed. If they were I would probably purchase them and avoid upgrading should a 4k disc get released in the future.

There are a few movies I am considering buying on DVD as they have yet to be released on blu ray yet but have not yet made a decision.

I know that as soon as I buy them they will inevitably get blu ray announcements.

 

[JoshZ]

I don't want to derail the thread or turn the tone argumentative but making statements like these with no supporting data is bad form.

I'm in no way challenging your perception, only pointing out that it may be just that.

I have both the 30th Anniversary Blu-ray and the UHD of the original Top Gun. The Atmos mix on the UHD is more dynamic, sounds better, and loses none of the LFE from the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD tracks on the Blu-ray. As Sam Posten would say, “Shit blows up good!”

I'm only reporting what others have measured. Here's a YouTube reviewer who shows examples (starting about 8:00 into the video):



He talks about bass being equivalent to the old Blu-ray in some scenes, but others being decidedly filtered - specifically the sound of the jet afterburners.

As for Oblivion, here's a thread on AVSForum about it:

Bass level different on Blu Ray and 4k Ultra HD discs of...

www.avsforum.com

Members of the forum also have a very long thread about using a process called BEQ to "fix" the bass in filtered soundtracks. Oblivion comes up quite often in it.

Bass EQ for Filtered Movies

www.avsforum.com

 

[JohnRice]

I'm only reporting what others have measured. Here's a YouTube reviewer who shows examples (starting about 8:00 into the video):



He talks about bass being equivalent to the old Blu-ray in some scenes, but others being decidedly filtered - specifically the sound of the jet afterburners.

As for Oblivion, here's a thread on AVSForum about it:

Bass level different on Blu Ray and 4k Ultra HD discs of...

www.avsforum.com

Members of the forum also have a very long thread about using a process called BEQ to "fix" the bass in filtered soundtracks. Oblivion comes up quite often in it.

Bass EQ for Filtered Movies

www.avsforum.com

Then I encourage you to start a thread on that topic. It's just not the topic of this thread.

 

[JoshZ]

Then I encourage you to start a thread on that topic. It's just not the topic of this thread.

Why isn't it? This thread is about upgrading from Blu-ray to 4K. Is it really an "upgrade" when the 4K's audio has been filtered in comparison to the Blu-ray? That seems like a 100% pertinent question to me.

 

[johnmcmasters]

As happens sometimes when reading through this forum, I am feeling a bit inadequate since I don't have any set rules for the purchases I make. Nor do I have a state-of-the art set-up (LG curved 4k/3D OLED TV, OPPO 203 4K player, a Marantz 1603 receiver, ancient Polk Monitor 10 speakers, ancient Pioneer LD Player, and a pair of Sennheiser 4.50 noise-reducing headphones.)

I often duplicate purchases of films willynilly. I have a few individual films in multiple formats now: VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, Blu-Ray, and UHD. I try to read reviews and upgrade when it seems worth the effort -- but to be honest many of my purchases are simply impulse buying. This also happens when I purchase music, and I own so many iterations of classical musical works by now that I've stopped keeping track of some composers and compositions. I have many LPs, Cassette Tapes, CDs, SACDs, and now hi-res uploads of many works. Thank goodness I never had a high quality reel-to-reel tape recorder/player. But I feel no regrets.

My "method" is to try and keep my banking account reasonably healthy while giving in to my impulses when I can -- which does cause some budget problems if my impulses get the better of me. I just cancelled a purchase of the new SACD mix of the Solti/Vienna "Ring" cycle, because I don't really need it. I already have it on CD, along with versions by Karajan, Furtwangler, and Keilberth. It just looked pretty, and I splurged. That happens, frankly, too often.

I am nearing retirement, so I am trying to amass a library of things I love, things I want to explore, and things that are totally alien to me so that my retirement days can be as much fun as possible.

So I really don't have a line in the sand that I never cross. It's more like a roundabout that keeps me spinning with choices.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

My "method" is to try and keep my banking account reasonably healthy while giving in to my impulses when I can

I write all fancy about my methods but all of that is just lots of big words to say exactly what you just said there.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I guess I'm an outlier in this thread as my 4K/UHD disc library inches closer to the 700 mark according to DVD Profiler.

 

[jayembee]

I guess I'm an outlier in this thread as my 4K/UHD disc library inches closer to the 700 mark according to DVD Profiler.

I haven't counted mine, but I would guess that I'm somewhere in the hundreds. Probably nowhere near 700, though. I could be wrong.

 

[JoshZ]

I guess I'm an outlier in this thread as my 4K/UHD disc library inches closer to the 700 mark according to DVD Profiler.

Just checked my DVD Profiler stats: 117 UHDs.