Upgrade from 16-46CS+ ?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Shawn C, May 10, 2004.

  1. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Hey all, moved into the new house and am looking to upgrade my 16-46CS+. Here is a diagram of my current room setup, more or less.

    [​IMG]

    I was thinking of upgrading to the PB2-Plus but was wondering if that is really even an upgrade when compared to the 16-46CS+? I like the 16-46CS+, but I have the upgrade itch. Again.....

    The room is in the basement is about 26x10, of which I am taking up approx 11x10. There are stairs on the right side, and a 6-foot hall opening in the back of the room that leads to my office and bedroom.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    how 'bout another?
     
  3. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Yeah, I thought about that. There is a high WAF here. I don't think 2 of these monster tubes would go over very well...
     
  4. Bill Mullin

    Bill Mullin Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually, two tubes don't take up much more floor space than the PB2+. Why not upgrade to a pair of PC-Ultras? I see that your HT room is 10x11, I recently had my HT in a 10x12 room with a pair of cylinders and they worked awsomely! [​IMG] Also, since you're in the basement I'd hope that WAF wouldn't be as much of a factor than if you were in the living or family room.

    FWIW, I just had to make a similar decision . . . earlier this morning I ordered a pair of Ultras!

    - Bill
     
  5. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Shawn

    What do you hope to gain by "upgrading"? Have you taken any readings with a Rat Shack SPL meter? Are you running your 16-46PC+ at full tilt? IMHO if you are not able to add a 2nd 16-46+, your choices are limited.

    How bout a PB-2 Ultra. Buy your wife some jewelry, show her the beautiful wood finishes available on the sub, sell the 16-46, and make way for a 190 pound end table.

    Or if you think you are going to want even more after a while, hold out for a B4+.

    Artie
     
  6. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Hey Shawn,

    I went from a 16-46CS+ to a PB2-ISD. IMO there is a difference between the ISD and Plus drivers. Personally I like the sound quality of Plus drivers over the ISD's. It's hard for me to put my finger on it, but I would imagine that it's not unlike the diff between the plus and the ultra drivers.

    By no means is the PB2-ISD a slouch. You will have no problem filling that space with bass. In fact, the CS+ will probably do the trick, but I understand WAF and all. That's partly the reason I changed subs - it no longer fit the HT relocation.

    Something else you may want to consider (depending on your listening habits) is getting dual UFW-10's. With real wood veneers and piano black end caps, it's high on the WAF AND slams some serious bass, but it won't troll as low as the CS+ so you might miss that ultra low bass. If you listen to 50/50 HT/Tunes, you should consider it or give them a demo in your area if possible. I'll be demoing a UFW-10 this weekend. We'll see what happens.

    My 2 cents. [​IMG]
     
  7. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Before proceeding keep this in mind.

    The 16-46 is tuned to 16Hz the PB-2 is tuned to 25Hz.

    Are you OK with with a sub that does not go as low as what you've got?

    If more output is what you want then adding a second 16-46 will be the most economical way of adding 6dB of output (If you collocate) and keeping the FR you got right now.

    If your "upgradatis bug" means you want something that looks and sounds different then the PB2 would be the ticket.
     
  8. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Yeah, I guess I'm not really happy with the volume I am getting out of the 16-46CS+. I know that SVS recommends 2 of them in a larger room, but at the time I could only afford 1, and that was used!

    Are two seperate subs as accurate as a subwoofer with multiple drivers in one enclosure? Are there any timing or "delay" problems with running dual subs? Would the sound start to get muddy?
     
  9. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Shawn

    If you get another 16-46 and place them side by side, you can expect about 6db additional output.

    If you put the subs in different locations you lose the 6 db. Also, contrary to what some espouse, putting 2 subs in different locations causes frequency response problems. I believe Tom Nousaine has tested this multiple sub situation and as the reigning king of sub testers I would give his test results some weight.

    I would continue to recommend that you seriously consider a PB2-Ultra. Buy your wife some jewelry, show your wife the beautiful wood finishes, sell your 16-46, and make way for a beautiful 190 pound end table.
     
  10. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    Take a look at the PB2-Ultra as mentioned above. With the ultra you could set it to 16Hz (plugging ports) and you'd still have the SPL to beat out your current sub. Sure it's expensive, but you can probably get a good price on the CS+ which will help. I think if you went with the ultra you'd be able to keep the upgrade bug away for a pretty good while. With the PB2+ you might have to use it at 20Hz or 25Hz to notice a difference in the SPL.
     
  11. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    With all due respect, I seriously doubt you'll push the ISD, Plus OR the Ultra to the point where you'll notice the diff in headroom. I think where you'll notice a difference is in the quality of bass. Whatever way you go, you'll max out the room before you max out the sub.
     
  12. Stephen Houdek

    Stephen Houdek Second Unit

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    Your room is a little smaller than mine and you aren't getting enough bass from an 16-46 Ultra?

    I have a PB1+ and its more than enough bass. Are you absolutely positive you're calibrated it properly? I really can't imagine needing more bass. I run mine typically at -25 so I've got the sub a little hotter than if I ran it close to reference.

    How long have you had it?
     
  13. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Hey Shawn, what are you driving the CS+ with? Are you EQ'ing it? Depending on your reply, all you may need is a BFD an a beefier amp to make that CS+ really sing.[​IMG]
     
  14. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Right now, and am using an Outlaw M-200 Monoblock on the 16-46CS+ It seems to work pretty well.

    I am leaning towards the second 16-46CS+/Samson 1000 package. I looked at my room config. again and I do have room to run them side-by-side. That way, I could sell the Outlaw and use the Samson 1000 to run both of the subs.
     
  15. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    If I were you, I would keep the CS+, maybe get another, and get a Samson S1200 instead of the 1000. I want to know I can push the sub to its limits without risk of clipping the amp. Therefore I want an amp that's rated higher than the max rating on the sub. I got headroom!

    Anyway, I'm sure the Outlaw is a decent amp as amps go, but you're nowhere NEAR pushing the CS+ towards its limits. I think the reason you are not getting enough from the CS+ is because your amp doesn't have enough juice.

    SO, I'd sell the Outlaw and get a beefier amp and run the single CS+, THEN see if it's enough. I think you'll find that you might not even need an additional sub. You can find the Samsons cheap on eBay.

    My 2 cents.[​IMG]
     
  16. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Just pulled the trigger on a pair of CS-Ultra's with the Samson 1000. Thanks for the tips everyone!
     
  17. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Hi Shawn,

    [​IMG] Two CS-ULTRA'S! > Your problems are over. Dual makes a huge difference and will give you the headroom your looking for. Don't worry about your bass being muddy or even over-powering. Just calibrate accordingly. I think you possibly might like the stock 20 hz tune also?

    I run three 25-31CS+'s in a situation close to your room layout (24 X 12 X 10c, HT on one end) and admittedly dual is all I really need to have to exceed what I would ask of them. [​IMG]
     

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