TPM edge enhancement? (1 Viewer)

[Chris Maynard]

RobertR - I am not in denial about this at all.
I saw TPM DVD on a bigger screen than probably anyone in this thread unless they were with me at Fox.
I noted EE then.
Now....I was just making an observation about the screen shot...which initially was eluded to not to being zoomed. Then Bryan comes back and confirms it was zoomed.
That was all I was pointing out.
EE can be made much more dramatic by zooming the image which in our HT environment should never be done.

 

[RobertR]

I know what you're saying Chris, but it's clear to me that Bryan's purpose in zooming (and it was OBVIOUS to me that he did this) was simply to show the EE more close up so that people could more clearly see it's there and how bad it is. Anyone who looks at that shot simply CAN'T deny that it's there.
Bjoern Roy does EXACTLY the same sort of thing on his guide to EE page, which I pointed to, for the exact same reason: So that people can more clearly see what it is and what it does.
And yes, it will STILL negatively affect the picture even in the "unzoomed" state (Bjoern shows people this on his page).
And for what it's worth, NO one can reasonably accuse Bjoern and others (including me) of having a "bad setup".
I've no doubt that Bjoern will show a number of more examples from TPM, both zoomed and unzoomed.
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[Edited last by RobertR on October 17, 2001 at 09:36 PM]

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Extensive review up any minute.

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"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
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[Kevin Coleman]

Very nice pictures Bryan,
I think it is sometimes hard for people who might not have had a FPTV setup before to understand that yes you are in effect zooming in on the picture when blowing it up to a 7 or 8 feet wide picture. It is just easier for them to blame it in on your setup. People need to understand that yes as the screen gets larger the source needs to get better.
That is why when they project films digitally in a movie theatre they don't just use DVD resolution of 720X480P (DVD would look pretty bad on a 50' wide screen) they use a resolution like HDTV of 1920X1080I. Just like resolution , flaws in the film transfer are much more apparent the larger the picture gets.
I think a good analogy is 16X9 enhancement, you heard alot of people (myself included) come out after they bought their first 16X9 sets and say wow thank god for anamorphic widescreen when before they bought their sets they couldn't have cared less. I remember alot of posts around here questioning the need for anamorphic widescreen. But that number of posts has dramtically diminished since more people have bought 16X9 sets. I think we will see a similar movement regarding EE, or other transfer anamolies , as FPTV prices come down to where more people buy them.
I don't see anything wrong with pointing these very preventable flaws out to the studios in a constructive manner. It really disturbs me to see some people try to sweep this under the rug when later they will probably be thanking the whiners for getting rid of these flaws.
Look at the way Bill Hunt of TDB's jumped on the anamorphic widescreen bandwagon so early , had he not , there is no telling where we would be at today in regards to anamorphic widescreen.
Kevin C.

 

[Kwang Suh]

Great review, Bjoern. What's funny is that you have the same scenes where I noticed the extreme EE. Man, I couldn't believe the EE on Anakin.
Ah well. Overall though, it was a great presentation. At least the movie has no audio crackling whatsoever. That means I can turn it LOUD without having my ears bleed.

 

[RobertR]

As usual, Bjoern, you are The Man when it comes to explaining EE, showing what it is, and showing WHY it is a BAD practice by the studios that needs to be ELIMINATED.
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[Kevin Coleman]

An absolutely spot on review Bjoern,
I also definitely noticed the difference in quality of the Fox logo at the beginning. When I first saw it I was very dissapointed. Whatever the hell is causing this I sure wish they would fix it.
Kevin C.

 

[Chris Richard]

Your EE samples and explanation are always so enlightening, Bjoern.
Even for someone like me who has seen only a few large, front projection images - I am learning what to expect when I can purchase my own larger system some day.
I like that you still encourage people to buy this DVD even with your high level of disappointment in the EE.
I love the caliber of information available on this forum.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Why was I unable to see this on the 20ft Scootplex screen? Surely this should be visible on a screen that large. Also, those pictures are dark and blurry, I'd like to see a direct capture of the 720x480 anamorphic frame (which I will perform by the weekend if someone's willing to post the pics)
Jeff Kleist

 

[bryan_chow]

Now....I was just making an observation about the screen shot...which initially was eluded to not to being zoomed. Then Bryan comes back and confirms it was zoomed.

I don't know what you thought was being "eluded to."
I didn't ZOOM the picture using Photoshop or whatever. I just walked up to the big screen and took a close-up shot from 3-4 feet away. If you mean it is optically zoomed because I was close to the screen, then Yes. If you mean it is zoomed because I'm using a line quadrupler, then Yes. If you mean I used Photoshop to zoom into the picture, then No.
Like I said, I took that picture in the dark holding the camera in my hand with an extended exposure, so obviously it's not of the best quality (it is also distorted because I had to take it from an angle so that I don't block the CRT guns). All I wanted was to show others that there IS EE on the disc.
Bryan

 

[GlennH]

What will it take to get heard by the people that count on this issue? I don't have a FPTV, but I can see the effects shown by Bjoern clearly on my 58" 16x9 RPTV. There is no denying it is there, and that it is not there on some other movies like TITANIC.
Fox gets a lot of praise around here but I think it's time they get called on this issue. Peter has said the telecine people told him no EE was added to TPM. Well, somehow it is being added, and in abundance on some scenes. Fox needs to follow through on this and root it out if they want to stay at the top of the heap. My fear is that Peter asked, got an answer, and that was the end of that.
I'm afraid this will be a harder battle than anamorphic enhancement was because it appears to be below the radar screen of Bill Hunt and others who championed that cause. The worst thing is that it seems to be getting more prevalent instead of less, and the biggest and most anticipated titles seem to have it worse than others.
And I agree, where in the world is THX on all this? What more proof is needed that THX certification means virtually nothing?

 

[Carlo_M]

Fox gets a lot of praise around here but I think it's time they get called on this issue. Peter has said the telecine people told him no EE was added to TPM. Well, somehow it is being added, and in abundance on some scenes. Fox needs to follow through on this and root it out if they want to stay at the top of the heap. My fear is that Peter asked, got an answer, and that was the end of that.

On other Fox titles with EE, sure, go to Fox for remedy.
But this DVD was produced and created by Lucasfilm, not Fox. I don't think Peter is going to get Lucasfilm to do anything they don't want to do on a Star Wars title.
If you're going to start a war over this, fight it with Lucasfilm and not Fox. I don't think this was Fox's call.

 

[RobertR]

Well said, Glenn.
(Edit) Pointing out that this was Lucasfilm's doing and not Fox's certainly lays to rest the myth that Lucas was "going to show everybody how to do DVD right" or "he would show everybody a new reference standard for DVD" once he finally got around to putting one of his films on it.
This does not bode well for the quality of the OT when it's released. I would hope Fox and Lucasfilm would seriously examine their transfer practices before then.
Unfortunately, given Lucas attitude about such things, I'm not optimistic.
[Edited last by RobertR on October 18, 2001 at 06:30 AM]

 

[Rob Cooper]

At least there isn't a pan and scam version though right?!

 

[Tom Brennan]

No pan and scan thankfully. I'll bet alot of people out there will be forced to watch a Star Wars film in widescreen for the first time. I think it will convert alot of people.
The edge enhancement, while noticeable (especially in the new air taxi scene) does not distract me from the pleasure of being able to watch it on DVD. At the time the release was announced, I thought it would be a reference disc. I wonder why it isn't.
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[Jeff]

Um...Ok I'm blind. Where is Bjoern's review?
Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Jeff,
sorry. I posted a new thread announcing the review, but Vince closed it because of 'TPM thread overload', which makes sense.
Here is the post:

Hi folks,
i have completed my picture analysis on TPM. As usual, its rather on the thorough side. Click on the HT page in my signature, then 'DVD Video Analysis', then the newest review 'SW:TPM'.
Sorry that the audio analysis is not yet up as promised. Video had to be done first, although the soundtrack seems to be the most talked about issue here.
Graphs are ready, conclusions are draws, but comments aren't written yet. Shouldn't be too difficult though, the result is rather straight forward.

Have fun
Bjoern

 

[Bjoern Roy]

Oops didn't have 'Signature' enabled.
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"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Bjoern's Place (my HT in action, DVD reviews, SPL measurements...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide

 

[derek]

I too was disappointed in the amount of EE in TPM DVD. The first scene I noticed it CLEARLY was when R2D2 is brought before the Queen on her ship...the immediate view from behind the actors facing the Queen. Oh it was glaring! I was viewing on my old CRT projector system 100" screen. Other than the EE and some of the daylight/Tatoonie scenes seemed 'washed-out' a bit the picture is quite amazing. The CGI is quite seemless.
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Derek
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[David Forbes]

Bjoern, another fabulous job of showing exactly what is wrong with edge enhancement. Have you or anyone else forwarded your finding to Peter Staddon or someone at Lucasfilm? This really is a travesty....
David Forbes