Today is the "Great American Meatout"... (1 Viewer)

[Jack Briggs]

Some things that should be pointed out:

* Vegetarians have made a conscious choice to adapt to that lifestyle for a variety of reasons--if done correctly, vegetarianism can lead to a longer, healthy life; and it's a moral statement. To which I say, bravo. I believe humanity's callous disregard of and apathy toward its arrogant, barbaric treatment of nonhumans is pathetic. But I can't go further than this and make statements about hunting for "sport" and wearing furs, as that treads clearly into political no-no land.

* We should all show respect for other lifestyles, whether it's casting judgment on meat-eaters or vegans. The Meat-Out was, as has been stated, a consciousness-raising effort. If it made some people think, then PETA et al have done their job.

The PETA people are good; I've dealt with them a number of times when doing stories. They are often extreme and even a little silly, but they get attention. I respect them.

I don't frown on somebody gorging on a Big Mac. Fine. But I sure envy the longer, healthier lives of those vegans who have planned nutritious, balanced diets for themselves. I wish I had that sort of discipline.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Danny,

On the other side of the coin, if not for the fact that larger domesticated animals are useful to us today as meat, they would likely have ended up the way of the bison and other animals... extinct or almost so.

If it weren't for the massive bison kill instigated by whites taking over north america from the natives, then bison would still be as numerous as they were 250 years ago or less (BTW, they were EXTREMELY numerous). Domesticated animals like cows and pigs are so far removed from what they once were thanks to our millenia of intervention that statements of what they "would have been" are nothing but pure supposition.
It's nice that as humans we actually get a choice. Very few animals actually do. Bears eat both meat and plants, but their descision is based on (berry, salmon) seasonal changes, not moral changes. I have friends and family who are vegetarians and honestly I could care less if anyone is veggie or not. Just as long as I know that they're vegan or vegetarian before I invite them over for dinner or to go out to a restaurant.

 

[Scooter]

Oh boy...ok..here goes....

PETA is NOT a swell group of people performing "silly" stunts!!!! Ask anyone who had paint thrown on them while wearing furs...or the vandalized labs and farms. 2 months ago there was a story of a family who have a small zoo on their property and would invite class trips for upclose and touching experiences with a variety of animals. NO accusation of mistreatment or sub-par care was EVER made. But some peta "silly" person decided they knew better and are doing what they can to shut this down!!!!

They have made the lives of vets and others involved with animals hell..and accomplished little.

Look..this thread has had all the ingredients...laughs..ideas..convictions..offense. .etc. Perhaps it has lived out it's time.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Then let the cooler heads prevail here. Believe me, the thread is being watched closely. Let's state opinions without directing them at others, whichever side of the argument's fence they fall on.

 

[RobertR]

I have no idea what you're going with here

I think Danny's general point is that eating meat is just as natural and just as dictated by natural forces as eating plants is, so there's no "natural" presumption that eating meat is "evil" or "goes against nature". Speaking of which, I heard about a vegan who decided that his dog would HAVE to be a vegan, which clearly goes against the carnivorous nature of dogs.

 

[Timon Russo]

Am I hearing this right? Some folks actually went out of their way to eat more meat on meat-out day? Because they don't like being told what to do? I don't get it. I eat meat, but I admire those that don't. For animal rights reasons mostly. But it sounds like some people feel as though they are at war with vegetarians. Can anyone explain this rationale to me?

 

[RobertR]

Some folks actually went out of their way to eat more meat on meat-out day? Because they don't like being told what to do?

I think you said it. There's a feeling of rebelliousness against "finger wagging". Teenagers will listen to records with "bad lyrics" as a protest against being told they can't, smokers will say "the hell with you, I'll smoke all I damn well please", and so forth. The unexpressed assumption is that vegans are constantly trying to modify the behavior of others, but the reverse is not true.

 

[DennisHP]

Is there really enough evidence to support stating that vegetarians live longer than meat eaters? Wouldn't there have had to been some vegetarians who converted from meat eating around the early 1900's to substantiate this claim? Wouldn't there really need to be generations of vegetarians to accumulate enough scientific data to make the statement true?

I somehow doubt that anyone had great-great-grandparents that were vegetarians and if they were they probably wouldn't have made the consious thought to become one until they were older making the data to prove such a statement having to come from even further back in time.

Not that any data supporting the claim would make me stop eating meat; I'm hooked on the carcinogens.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Quote:

But to me it is less violent to pick a vegetable or fruit from a plant(leaving the plant alive) than it is to kill an animal that has emotions.

 

[RobertR]

But to me it is less violent to pick a vegetable or fruit from a plant(leaving the plant alive) than it is to kill an animal that has emotions.

Does this mean you don't eat carrots or radishes or any other vegetable that essentially involves eating the entire plant? Actually, I've seen it pointed out that if vegans are going to be ethically consistent, they should ONLY be "fruitarians", waiting until the fruit drops from the tree, thus giving the fruit up voluntarily. ANYTHING else constitutes violence against a living thing.

 

[Steve Peterson]

[/delurk]

Dogs are actually OMNIVOROUS(sp). Most dry dog food is made up of mostly grains with some protein. Your dog can live on a veggie diet, but you MUST be more cautious as it is very easy for you to get you dog's diet way too far out of wack. (Not enough protein.)

Steve "And I had a big ol' pork chop for MeatOut" Peterson

[lurk]

 

[Ron-P]

It's good to know that healty veggies are out there. I have known 5 in my life time and am related to one. All of them had a sickly, pale look with constant runny noses, 24/7.
To those that do it, kudos. I could not..love meat too much.

How about this. Say someone takes your DOG. Shoots it in the head with a metal bolt to stun it, hangs it up by one leg, slits its throat, and cuts it up while it is still screaming. You'd probably want them in prison for life for animal cruelty.

Nope. It is only a dog, not a person. Your talking to a guy who hunts animals for sport. I'll leave it at that.
Edit: This thread is heading down hill fast, time to jump ship.
Peace Out~

 

[Steven K]

I find it very amusing, yet sad, that the "good" folks at PETA have no qualms about burning down a farm, or sabotaging meat-processing equipment, each of which could result in the death of another human being. Yet, they they bitch and moan to no end when an animal, a creature that is NOT A HUMAN BEING, is killed for the purpose of human consumption.

Maybe it's just me, but if this doesn't make the loudest statement of all against PETA, then this society has even deeper problems that I once believed.

 

[DennisHP]

I did a little searching on the web and could not find any real data supporting the statement that a vegan lifestyle is healthier for you than consuming meat within a balanced diet. I did find this link that debunks some myths on both sides...
http://www.powerhealth.net/selected_articles.htm

 

[Ike]

Nope. It is only a dog, not a person. Your talking to a guy who hunts animals for sport. I'll leave it at that.

Wow...I know I couldn't respond the same way. My dog is like a human to me, and the only reason I even attempted the vegiterian thing for awhile. If someone did that to my dog, I can't say I wouldn't want to see that person treated like they'd killed a human.

But I think what we are cutting towards is a little upsetting: humans are essientially animals, and have animal needs, one of those being other animals flesh. The ecosystem has it worked so that there is a pecking order to keep species down. To not eat meat is to mess with my nature like I said before, and I seriously applaud all that can do it.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

humans are essientially animals, and have animal needs, one of those being other animals flesh.

Don't confuse desire with need.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Dennis, I'm reading that article now. Good stuff.

This sentence speaks volumes:

It is not animal cultivation that leads to hunger and famine, but unwise agricultural practices and monopolistic distribution systems."

Most, if not all, of the problems people have with eating meat exist not because meat is being eaten at all, but because it's being eaten too much and not harvested responsibly.

For example, that stigma of the heart-attack suffering steak lover is true only because too many people eat too much red meat. In general, red meat should be limited to about three times a week. But how many folks eat sausage for breakfast, a cheeseburger for lunch, and a 12 ounce steak for dinner?

It's the same with sugar: there's just too much of it everywhere, and in order to eat a healthy amount, one has to make a conscious effort to do so.

If one goes vegan and feels better for it with no harmful effects, fine. But to claim it is the only way to achieve a healthy lifestyle is a bit silly. The true "secret" to health is a balanced, diverse diet based on moderation accompanied by regular excercise and lots of sleep. No politics, morality, pills, or gimmicks will make that truth dissappear.

 

[Ron-P]

Ike, don't get me wrong, if my dog is killed to feed people, I have no problem with that at all. Humans are more important than animals. If it is killed out of pure evilness, that is a completely different subject with a completely different response.
Peace Out~

 

[Philip Hamm]

Ron,

Have you ever eaten venison? I've been thinking of taking up hunting for a few years now for the following reasons:

* I like hiking in the woods mile after mile

* There are way too many deer killing motorists like me on my motorcycle.

* venison is extremely delicious.

I couldn't imagine hunting purely for sport. The food is too darn good.

 

[DennisHP]

Philip, Venison is excellent tasting, is lean and obviously does not receive the typical vaccines that cattle do. I prefer hunting for my meat over "hunting by proxy" ie.. going to the meat market.