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Titans (D.C. Universe)

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by tempest21, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Disclaimer: I haven't been able to find a topic on this series anywhere within these forums but if there is, feel free to merge this with the pre-existing topic.

    Every time I heard some promise by Warner Brothers, the producers, the directors or the actors talk about how fans should wait until the series debuts, the more I keep swearing at Warner Brothers and D.C. Universe for giving us this travesty that is D.C.'s Titans. The problem isn't with the majority of the character designs for the series but with Starfire. Don't take this as race baiting or hate, because it's not. Anna Diop was a fine choice to portray Starfire but every leaked photo, every official imiage, even the trailer and the official cast photo is NOT selling me on this series.

    Starfire still looks like a hooker, prostitute, tramp, hoe, whatever terminology you want to put in there. Every image that has been leaked to the public has shown Starfire as a black woman and I can;t believe that I'm saying this, but someone should fire Greg Berlanti for getting Starfire wrong. Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl ... these shows were done pretty awesomely and I can't believe that he dropped the ball on a character as well known, well-loved and well-liked by the fans of the various incarnations of the Titans comics and animation shows.

    She looks like like a tramp from one of those old 70's Shaft movies. I keep expecting Richard Roundtree to appear and proclaimj "you've been pranked".

    I expected orange skin, green eyes, reddish-orange hair. Even when Starfire is not powered up, she does not have black skin. I just expected more quality control when it came to a character as important as Starfire is. I'd hate to say it, but the look of Starfire is going to fail this series in a major way if Warner brothers and D.C. Universe doesn't fix her appearance.

    I just don't think they are selling it to the fans because it sure as hell hasn't sold me on the series. If Titans is going to sell their D.C. Universe streaming service, then someone isn't doing a very good job at that.
     
  2. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    This looks like "Batman Forever: The Series", only without Batman. I'd maybe give it a show if it was on The CW, but it doesn't make me want to subscribe to yet another streaming service.

    For everybody's reference, the trailer:
     
  3. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Tell me about it. I felt the same way about CBS All Access when they were trying to launch Star Trek: Discovery as the flagship series. ST:D just didn't impress me all that much to sit through a new Star Trek series and be forced to watch subtitles. If I wanted to watch subtitles, I'd watch some anime (which I like better than Star Trek). But, the whole thing about with Titans that will sell me to D.C. Universe's new streaming service is how they visualize Starfire and I just haven't been impressed.

    I see to recall everyone involve with the series telling fans to hold off judgment. Well, the marketing for the series has been an absolute failure (didn't D.C. Universe learn anything from Sony's Ghostbuster reboot). This isn't just me saying this but there are a lot more fans of this series that have expressed similar concerns. The series is going to succeed or fail based on what Starfire is going to look like in the show. I'm also not happy with Cyborg/Victor Stone being a member of the Doom Patrol. D.C. Universe has this kind of ass-backwards.

    If I remember correctly, it was Garfield Logan/Changeling/Beast Boy who started out in Doom Patrol and Cyborg started out in New Teen Titans. When Garfield left Doom Patrol, it was a period of time before he was recruited by Raven for the New Teen Titans. Yeah, I've always been a fan of the Marv Wolfman/George Perez reboot of the New Teen Titans (1980-1988).
     
  4. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    Here is one of my favorite comic book series that I was very much into years ago:

    [​IMG]

    That trailer....ummm that resembles nothing of what I used to love about the comic books. It is hideous, ugly, dark and more.

    I think I'm going to take my love for DC, and keep it in the past tense. I am officially done with everything they have to offer. Film, and TV.
    Thanks for pretty much nothing.
     
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  5. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Bryan, that is the series that I also grew up with. I think I gravitated toward that series, simply because I related more to the new characters in the series. Marv Wolfman and George Perez really made that series identify with a lot of its fans. That was the version of the group that I thought that D.C. Universe would adapt but this new series isn't recognizable to any version of the Titans. It doesn't even resemble the first animated series of the Titans. I'm also dreading by what Cyborg is going to look and if they end up one-offing Trigon, it's going to be a disaster for this series. Worst yet, how will they adapt some of the best Titans storyarcs every written: The Judas Contract, the Brother Blood storyarcs that first Brother Blood storyarc, etc.

    I just don't hold too much hope for this series simply because they are already off to a rotten start. Most of the character designs were palatable to me, except for Starfire. I think they should name the Starfire in this series to "Hooker From Another World" or Hookaw. I've literally seen cosplayers who looked like Starfire than the Anna Diop version in the trailer. The fact that she looks like a hooker is going to force a lot of parents to ban this series from their homes. I just think that after the first episode drops, that the series is going to take a major hit in the reviews if D.C. Universe doesn't do something by the end of the first episode to fix that problem.

    I'll check out the first episode to see if her appearance changes. But, if they wait until the final episode of the first season to make her comic-book accurate appearance, then they are going to lose a lot of support for this series. Netflix did that with their Lost in Space reboot and they got excoriated by fans and critics for it. I think someone (an entertainment reviewer) had remarked that "they don't get Lost in Space until the final scene of the season finale".
     
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  6. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    I don't have any problem with casting a black actress for Starfire. I do have a problem with the relentless grim and dark texture of everything DC does (excepting parts of the Arrowverse). DC was always a bit brighter and lighter than the competition, which makes the turn to grim and gritty more jarring. Add in Robin's "F*** Batman" comment in the trailer, and this is not a show I want to see. They're making generic dark superheroes and slapping name-brands on them, which cheapens the whole thing.
     
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  7. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    I don't know what bothers me more, that the trailer reminds me of the worst homemade fanboy videos circa late 90's(the dark and dreary imagery and writing) or that there will be fans waiting to see it "oh my god did you here what Nightwing said? He said fuck Batman. This is going to be the best show ever".

    Add it all up and it's a scary mess.
     
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  8. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Tell me about it, Sam. This all started when Warner brothers hired Christopher Nolan, jacked up by a factor of 10 from Zack Snyder and now it infects everything that Warner brothers does with these D.C. Comics superheroes. I'm just sick to death of these "darker and grittier versions" of the franchise that is the DCU. While it's nice that Titans was greenlit, I just don't hold out much hope that Titans will be successful. Then there's Arrowverse's Batwoman and the DCU's Batgirl. It's like Warner Brothers and DCU keep doubling down on the same ideas then in trying to actually create something that fans will enjoy.
     
  9. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    I keep wanting to like the show but judging from a recent article over on Screenrant, they wrote an article about DCU releasing a new one shot poster. They also say that "Starfire and Raven feature the stylized eyes that indicate they're using their powers". Uh, Starfire, or rather Princess Koriand'r always has green eyes. They have never indicated in the comics that they only appear when she's using her powers. I can't tell if that's the write-up from SR or if that's the official DCU byline about these characters.

    https://screenrant.com/titans-tv-show-poster-dc-universe/
     
  10. Thomas Newton

    Thomas Newton Screenwriter

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    I was never much of a fan of Teen Titans – but a trailer darker than most "Dark Knight" trailers, with the subtitle "TIME FOR INNER DEMONS TO COME OUT AND PLAY"?!?

    I thought that Raven was the only member of the group who was supposed to be really dark – and that, because her father was an actual demon from the Pit. The others were pretty upbeat. That included Robin/Nightwing – who lost his parents, just like Batman – but who did not let it consume him to the same degree.

    How do you square that with this trailer?
     
  11. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, Marv Wolfman and George Perez created the concept for the original New Teen Titans, which consisted of Robin, Wonder Girl (Donna Troy), Starfire, Changeling, Cyborg and Raven. Raven brought the team together after being dismissed by the the original pre-Crisis, Justice League of America, to help her defeat her demon father Trigon. Beast Boy was renamed as Changeling by Marv Wolfman and George Perez. Now, Raven was never considered dark. Her mother, Arella, who was a human female. After Trigon seduced her, got her parent, and left Arella, Arella was taken to Azarath by other non-pacifists by guarded a dimensional gateway to keep Trigon out of the universe. When Raven became a teenager, she was forced to leave Azarath. That's where she gathered the characters I listed above.

    Throughout the first six issues of the first New Teen Titans (1980) series, the core storyarc was about fighting Trigon and preventing him from entering our universe. My guess is that they are following that storyarc throughout the first season. But, Trigon compared as the physical universe's manifestation of Satan, but not exactly. Trigon was an evil being who conquered and enslaved his home galaxy and when he discovered another galaxy (the New Teeen Titans universe), he set his sights on conquering our universe as well. This was a character who could never be defeated, only pushed back to his galaxy until he returned again. He would return, from time to time, to plague the Titans.
     
  12. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    Has anyone seen this yet? Didn't it premiere last night?
     
  13. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    It did. I wasn't impressed. I won't mention spoilers regarding the plot but only the characters themselves. The whole dustup over Robin saying "F*** Batman was only put into the script just so they could say that Robin swears. There was no reason to include it in the script. Starfire still looks like a street hooker and she's apparently very wealthy, judging by the premiere. Starfire, will take around three episodes before she meets up with Dick Grayson and Rachel Roth. Garfield Logan had a brief 3 minute scene just so they could include him in the pilot episode. The pilot episode was so disorganized and disjointed and lacked cohesion.

    With Rachel Roth, at least they made some kind of attempt to explain how Rachel is linked to Dick but absolutely no explanation as to why Starfire is looking for her. No sign of Hawk and Dove either. The scene at the end with Changeling (sorry, I refuse to call him Beast Boy) was cool, seeing him as a CGI Tiger. But when he transferred back to human form, it was freaky as hell. It reminded me of those horrible werewolf transformations from movies like Silver Bullet, The Howling and Wolfen.

    So far, I wasn't impressed with the pilot episode but I'm hoping this changes. I'm anxious to see how Cyborg is going to look, with him being added to The Doom Patrol team, since he was a founding member of the New Teen Titans. If they bring Donna Troy (Wonder Woman/Troia) and Victor Stone (Cyborg) into the Titans, then I'm full on for this series.
     
  14. Richard V

    Richard V Cinematographer

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    I watched it and liked it very much. Ultra Violent? Yes. Profanity? Yes. Dark? Absolutely. So what? Ever since Frank Miller re-imagined Batman as the Dark Knight, that has been the trend in comics both on and off screen. Miller was praised as a genius, Christopher Nolan was highly praised for his series of Batman films, which are inherently dark. Heath Ledger won an Oscar for his violently dark portrayal of the Joker. Criminals and crime are dark. I don't understand why DC seems to be targeted about dark and gritty stories/movies/TV series. Marvel's offerings - Daredevil, Jessica Jones, The Punisher are just as dark and gritty, and hardly anyone says boo about them. I will continue to support all things DC, just as I will support all things Marvel (except the Inhumans, ugh).
     
  15. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    Ugh, just saw that Akiva Goldsman is involved in this mess, I'm most likely tapping out.
     
  16. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    it doesn't surprise me. Although I've heard about him, there is a lot of vitriol and anger directed at Akiva Goldsmith.
     
  17. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    I couldn't believe it. I was just reading a new article posted by Slashfilm and while they were reviewing the DC Universe and they kind of echoed by sentiments about the series as well as the "F Batman" line. I thought I was only the one who had the thought that the only reason why DCU added that line ini there was so that DC could claim that "we swear on our superhero TV shows".

    https://www.slashfilm.com/dc-universe-review/

    But I do agree with one part of their article that if DC Universe is hoping to retain subscribers because of Titans, then not many subbers are going to stick around for the rest of the series. I think that if the series can improve its image, then it could succeed, but, already out of the gate, they have alienated a lot of families with young children who aren't going to allow their children to watch the series.

    I'm hoping that Starfire gets her classic comic book look before the season is half finished.
     
  18. tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Caught the second episode and it was an improvement over the first episode. Not going to mention the plot but it does introduce Hawk and Dove and give us a glimpse at a CGI Raven (a bird). Looked kind of kewl and ominous at the same time. Hint: that was not spoiler. ;)
     
  19. ponset

    ponset Second Unit

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    The HAWK & DOVE uniforms are the best I have seen on any DC series.
     
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  20. Message #20 of 40 Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    tempest21

    tempest21 Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I've watched the first three episodes, so far. It's improved. The only thing I hate about the series is Starfire. Starfire does not have MAGENTA hair. That's right. It's official. DC Universe, Warner Brothers, Greg Berlanti and the rest of these miscreants are saying that Starfire has purplish hair. Starfire's hair color is not purplish nor is it MAGENTA. Her hair has always been red or orange colored, even when she's not using her powers. I blame Greg Berlanti for this crap.

    How could he give us such classics as Arrow, Flash, Legends and Supergirl and screw it up when it comes to Starfire? I wouldn't have a problem with it if Berlanti explained it away as her hair color will find it's way to her original hair color. The other problem I have? This is major. Starfire is NOT a black woman. It's like DCU can't afford to pay for CGI effects to fix her skin tone. While her skin tone isn't orange, it's a golden bhue, as she was always called "goldie" through the New Teen Titans comics as a pet name for her by Gar and Vic.

    This is insane.

    I also caught a glimpse of the trailer for the next episode, the Doom Patrol guest stars. They actually kind of look kewl. The next episode trailer at the very end of the episode.
     

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