THX: Is it REALLY worth it?? (1 Viewer)

[Terry St]

I think the differences you will hear with or without THX post-processing will depend to an extent on your setup. In my setup, THX post processing is actually pretty subtle on most soundtracks. I wouldn't bet money that I could pass a DBT on anything mixed recently. However, many older movies that sound harsh can sound quite different with THX re-eq filters on. (or at least I think they do. ) It isn't always an improvement, but often it is. In any case, if you only watch recently released movies I doubt you would miss it. If, like me, you watch a lot of older movies then THX post processing is a handy tool to have.
It is important to note that THX certification involves much more than just the THX processing. On another forum (starting with avs) engineers involved in the design of THX certified equipment have posted a fair bit about the certification process. It involves rigorous testing of prototypes to uncover design flaws. This includes limits on distortion, etc. as well as more practical concerns such as interface bugs. While some manufacturers have the resources to test their equipment every bit as rigorously as THX does, most do not. For such companies THX can actually help them produce a better product cheaper. Extra testing never hurts in any case. If a prototype is submitted for testing and fails, then the manufacturer must fix the problems and submit a new version. A manufacturer cannot cut corners to reduce costs or push up their release date. They have to put in the time and resources to get it right. This is the real cost of producing THX certified gear. Not royalty fees.
When THX certification first came out some equipment (e.g. Bryston amps) passed with no design changes. They just slapped a badge on it. However, most high-end manufacturers had some work to do in order to meet THX specs. It is not unlikely that there are still high end companies out there producing gear that has no hope of passing THX certification. I am sure there are also high end companies who could pass, but choose not to for other reasons. While THX post processing ultimately comes down to personal preference the THX certification process is a valuable tool which helps manufacturers to better test their equipment and improve it.
You most certainly do not need THX certification on every part of your setup. The preamp/receiver is probably the most complex and bug-prone piece of gear in the average setup. If you get one THX certified item this would be the best one to pick. Amplifiers that are not THX certified may or may not have some minor problems depending on the manufacturer but you would probably be hard pressed to notice them. THX certified speakers, on the other hand, aren't that common. At this time I feel that insisting on THX certified speakers would limit your options by far too much.

 

[David Judah]

For instance, some people may have applied room treatments to account for the X-curve and don't need further equalization. How is that re-mix going to sound? Not how it's supposed to, that's for sure

You've got to be kidding. How many people do think have tried that route(successfully even, for it takes alot of time and money to get right)versus those who don't know what the X-curve, THX, or RE-EQ is?
Well, I guess that lucky .05% could always boost the treble up a bit.
DJ

 

[Yogi]

Well all I am saying is that THX is not a top priority and that there are other much important things that can make my system sing without THX. Also when shopping for most components like say amps, I look for other indicators of competent performance like power handling at low impedances and damping factor etc without worrying about it meeting THX specs or not. If a mass market receiver like the 4802 can meet THX specs for amplification it makes no sense for me to worry about my 200x5 B&K or my Proceed (that doubles its power at half impedance) meeting the specs. Basically I am not a believer in specmanship and badging of components and decide based purely on sound. Just like you said if THX makes you sleep better at night then so be it. To each its own as you put it .
Or if you put it this way. If I were given a choice of two components one thats THX and the other that isnt but similar otherwise, I would choose the one without THX. I decided to go with the 3802 without THX rather than the 4802 with THX and added an external amp for the difference in price (BTW I shop at B&M stores and pay close to retail) and after doing an A/B comparison have found the 3802 with separate amps to be leaps and bounds better in performance than the standalone 4802. And I sleep better at night knowing I have better value and performance for the same price.
Cheers

 

[Jay Sylvester]

You've got to be kidding. How many people do think have tried that route(successfully even, for it takes alot of time and money to get right)versus those who don't know what the X-curve, THX, or RE-EQ is?

There are plenty of people out there with dedicated home theater rooms, acoustic treatments, and front projection setups (sometimes with microperf screens behind which speakers are placed, requiring the X-curve to be intact in order to get proper playback). As the price of projectors approaches that of HDTVs--Sony's newest 16:9 WXGA digital projector has an MSRP of $2999--there will be even more.

It's much more logical to leave the original soundtrack intact and allow the controller/processor to tailor it to the user's environment and tastes than it is to remix the soundtrack for a particular environment and force people with "real" home theaters to try and recreate the original mix. Another reason I miss LD so much; they were mixed with enthusiasts in mind. Some guy with an HTIB in his den simply wasn't a consideration. How about letting him turn down his treble a bit instead of modifying the soundtrack? We both know it's not as simple as bumping up the treble in order to recreate the X-curve, and between Mr. HTIB and Mr. THX, who do you think would be less likely to care about sonic inaccuracies? People who don't know any better love extra brightness and boomy bass anyway.

I'd be willing to bet money that some future processor will incorporate an X-curve "re-insertion" feature to help make up for all of the current DVD soundtracks that are being butchered in the name of the "home environment."

 

[Guy Usher]

THX is not so much of a Quality standard as it is more a Performance Standard. It gives you tighter guidelines to follow in order that you are assured you will reproduce the THX content as it was designed to be reproduced, lots of technecial issues addressed in the chain. Your X, Y, Z product may or may not meet the standard, doesn't mean it is better or worse just does or doesn't. Like ISO standards, it assures you of operating at a certain level of performance. When you buy a HT piece do you look to see if it is ISO certified? Is it important to you? An informed buyer knows what he wants and buys what he knows. Personally all things being equal I will take a moment to consider the THX badge, doesnt mean I will buy it but it does mean I see it and take it into consideration. Don't know much music that sounds good with THX, but Movies. . .

 

[Yogi]

One more interesting thing I noted about THX certification.
The B&K 7250 (200x5) costs 2500 and the 7260 (200x6) costs $300 more for the additional channel and the 7270 (200x7) costs $500 more than the 6 channel version not just $300 but a full $500 more. Same chassis, same addtional channel same power supply, same specs but $200 more for THX ultra badge. Not the few $$$ per unit that everyone thinks but a full $200 strange isn't it?

 

[Tom Camlioglu]

Yogi,
You are posting on pure speculation at this point !!
Why don't you ask B&K what their justification is for their difference in pricing between their amps and let them tell you why.
Gimme a break ... jeepers, I mean really
Tom

 

[Jay Sylvester]

The top product of any line is often priced disproportionately to the rest of the line. It's nothing new, hardly surprising, and doesn't lend any credence to your argument, Yogi.

 

[Lewis Besze]

There are plenty of people out there with dedicated home theater rooms, acoustic treatments, and front projection setups

Defy "plenty"!
The millions of LOTR dvd that was sold,how many of them were watched on such set up?Hundreds, thousands,[maybe]?
BTW Yogi,
all THX amps use negative feedback loop to drive down distortion,I think this is one of your "pet peeve no nos",so there is one more thing for you to "dislike" em.
I'm with you on this!

 

[Jay Sylvester]

Defy "plenty"!
The millions of LOTR dvd that was sold,how many of them were watched on such set up?Hundreds, thousands,[maybe]?

Enough for it to matter. The source material should always be created with hi-end setups in mind, and then filtered down by the playback equipment to accommodate lower-end setups. It's easier to dumb down a source than it is to try and recreate information that's been thrown away.

There's a big push for HD-DVD to store films in full 1080p/24fps. How many displays will actually be able to resolve that level of detail? Not many, at least not for many years. Does that mean we shoudn't do it?

 

[Lewis Besze]

Quote:

Not a good analogy at all,not to mention by the time the studios will be convinced to release their in movies in that format,technology will be ahead of it.

 

[Jay Sylvester]

The X-curve is only a part of the alterations Mi Casa makes. Read the other thread linked to above.

Not a good analogy at all

It's a perfectly good analogy. It's about catering to the lowest common denominator. You use the word yourself: "average."

 

[Jay Sylvester]

I just realized that I've helped push this discussion from the value of THX certification toward the volatile topic of the X-curve and enthusiasts vs. the normal guy. Sorry about that.
Fun debate though, even if it won't ever end

 

[Lewis Besze]

It's a perfectly good analogy. It's about catering to the lowest common denominator. You use the word yourself: "average."

I used the word for the size of the room!Your analogy isn't valid since you putting a technology[HD-DVD] which doesn't exist yet[outside some proposed prototypes,as no standard estabilished yet] to the current state of the projectors that out there[less then 5k],obviously in a few years the "balance will shift".

 

[Jay Sylvester]

Please,that has been debated to death,and I've been there done that![I've dumped my LD player in '99].

What equipment were you using? And why did you sell so quickly? Did every title you owned make it to DVD? Just curious.

 

[Greg_R]

For those of you who feel that the THX certification process is junk, please read this thread, specifically the posts by the two members who have actually been through the process. One interesting part of the thread is that they get THX cert'd equipment for reasons beyond the Re-EQ feature (it's for THX's product validation).
THX's software / DVD certification is entirely different than the hardware process. A THX DVD just means that the mastering equipment was certified (it's still possible to make a horrible DVD from nicely working equipment).

 

[David Judah]

Perhaps you didn't intend it, Jay, but some of what you are saying comes off a bit elitest. After all, I doubt that even the guy with the front projector and over $10,000 of electronics is treating the room with the 2" acoustic foam to account for the X-curve. He is using it to tame some room anomalies. If the engineers are taking it into account then he doesn't need to worry about it just like the guy with the HTIB and everyone in between.

It doesn't have to be about catering to the lowest common denominator, but about simplifying the process for everyone(or almost everyone)to get more accurate playback at home without relying on electronics in the decoder that not everyone has.

Now, as far as soundtracks being butchered for the home theater environment, I don't think the facts don't support such a notion, for we have heard release after release raise the bar of quality. Furthermore, do you really think the engineers that put these soundtracks together for DVD are any less passionate about movies and the quality of the soundtracks than we are?

DJ

 

[Scott McAllister]

Sheesh, I seem to have inadvertently started a small flaming session. I find it interesting that nobody has made any comments on which of my gear I should upgrade first, which was one of my follow up questions. This is still enjoyable though. Good to see passionate people rocking the gavel.
Scott

 

[Scott Oliver]

Ok to answer your follow up question, my thoughts are as follow:

I don't think your DVD player needs to be replaced, at least not with your video dispaly. Progrssive scan and component video would all have minor impact on a screen that small.

If you are primarily into watching movies on your rig, then I would suggest a better video display i.e. larger screen, better resolution.

Once that is accomplished, then your DVD player could quickly become your weak link.

 

[Lewis Besze]

What equipment were you using? And why did you sell so quickly? Did every title you owned make it to DVD? Just curious

Pioneer CLD-604,704, DVL-700,also had a Runco JR for loan for awhile.
DVD just looked better hands down on my rig.
Only one LD title I cared for didn't make it to DVD so far[well at least R-1].
Lee Tamahori's "Once Were Warriors",I still have that on Criterion LD.[can't palyed it though]
BTW there are quiet a few people here with "high-end"[above avarage]equipments, who are very positive about the Blade II and FOTR DVD's soundtracks,not to mention most reviews were positive as well.[internet or print]
Interestingly I've found complaints more from the "HTIB" crowd then from the "better equiped",calling it "overcooked",and too much bass,presumably because of "whimpy" subs,and miss calibration,and lack of EQ/room treatment for bass.In other words in topnotch set ups these will rock no doubt in my mind,and at my place too