The Terminator: SE 5.1 Audio Track -- Thumbs Down! (1 Viewer)

[EnricoE]

Who cares? Just buy a 4:3 TV and watch letterbox (non-anamorphic) movies without black bars (top and bottom).

u must have a very strange 4:3 tv when you can watch a letterboxed film without black bars on the top and the bottom. unless it's a fullscreen film (cropped or open matte) you have to watch it with black bars

 

[Ray H]

He could be referring to the "zoom" feature on many DVD players.

 

[Kramer Lowry]

 

[Rich Malloy]

I don't have either the Image or MGM discs of "The Terminator", but I've seen it twice now on HD-Movienet!

It looks amazing for such a relatively low-budget flick, absolutely amazing.

 

[Grant H]

I was pretty happy the times I've viewed thid disc with the 5.1 track.
I'd seen the movie many times over the years, but I obviously wasn't as familiar with the sound of it as some are or as I am with say the Star Wars films.
I'll have to check out the mono mix some time.
I kind of thought the film was less chilling since I'm not a little kid watching it anymore, but maybe the soundmix has something to do with it too.
I was pretty upset when I first heard about the metal-sraping sound being gone in the opening credits, but since then so much more conrtroversy has come out regarding the 5.1 track.
Thanks for ruining another DVD, guys.
Seriously though, I was sooo happy to have this film with such amazing picture quality. At the time, this transfer was substantially better than the existing T2 transfers making me feel like my viewing experience took a big step down when I watched them together.
I wonder if it will ever get ANOTHER 5.1 re-mix for a future format or for a release that has more involvement with the director.

 

[Scott_MacD]

Rich,
It looked great when it was given limited showings by MGM in the UK. Real, honest-to-goodness detail, sweat on people's faces, grime, and so on. And it still belied it's budget projected 75ft wide 20 years on. The DVD was downconverted from the HD master you saw on television. It just makes me ache for a new format, knowing that movies can look just so much better.
The sound was presented in the new 5.1 mix, though.. :frowning:

 

[EnricoE]

I wonder if it will ever get ANOTHER 5.1 re-mix for a future format or for a release that has more involvement with the director.

i wouldn't mind if james cameron supervises a new re-mix and if gary rydstrom would work on it too then we would know we get a first class audio mix

 

[greg_t]

You guys should here the PCM mono track on the LD. It's better than both DVD tracks. Too bad we can't get it on DVD. Although I actually prefer the LD transfer over the DVD.

 

[Rich Malloy]

I don't understand why most mono and stereo tracks on DVDs aren't PCM (do they really take up that much space?).

The DVD was downconverted from the HD master you saw on television. It just makes me ache for a new format, knowing that movies can look just so much better.

I know, I know! It's hard to get real excited about even a fantastic transfer like this one when my cable service offers the same movie in superior image quality. Imagine that, huh? Until recently, I never did.

 

[greg_t]

I don't understand why most mono and stereo tracks on DVDs aren't PCM (do they really take up that much space?).

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I believe most mono and stereo tracks on DVD are compressed dolby at 192kbps and LD mono or stereo is uncompressed PCM at ~1411kbps. So it is quite a bit larger.

 

[Grant H]

Greg, could you expand on why you prfer the LD transfer?

 

[greg_t]

I think the colors are much better and more vibrant on the LD. I find the DVD colors to be less vibrant and generally not as pleasing to my eyes. I much prefer the PCM soundtrack on the laser to either tracks on the dvd.

 

[Mattias_ka]

I also prefer the mono track vastly on the THX LD.

/Mattias

 

[Grant H]

I was checking out various scenes in the film, and there are big differences between the 5.1 and mono soundtracks to be sure, but I had a rough time saying one was truly "better" than the other.
For one thing, I noticed some observations to be false, like "there is now music when Reese dies". There was in the mono mix too (at least on the new DVD), but the music is FAR more present in the 5.1 track than in the mono mix.
At times, it is barely audible in the mono mix which is one reason I may lean toward the new mix. It's a big matter of preference though. Some may prefer a more "Duel"-like experience where mostly sound effects drive the film. Depending on my mood I could lean either way actually. It's just so neat to hear the score presented so well, when it was buried and muffled for years. What was the intent? Only Cameron could tell you for sure. The muffled music and more present sound effects may instill terror more effectively than a "scary" score.
While I can see where the laser-sighted pistol drew a lot of aggravation, I could see why a lot of gun FX were changed. I would have used a beefier sound for that gun, but it was the old Dirty Harry Magnum effect before. Most of the gun sounds are very dated on the mono mix; they sound like they're from a 70's or 80's tv show library. Many of the replacements I found to be improvements. I liked the louder machine gun sound post-police station massacre (as Kyle and Sarah escape) on the mono mix, but the new sound is okay.
The shotgun-cock sequence in the beginning wasn't too much of a difference (again, at least not on the mixes on the new DVD).
The worst thing for me, aside from the absence of the scraping metal during the opening credits, is the new sound during the tunnel scene. The old explosions had the coolest sound to them that really made it sound like they were happening in a very confined tunnel. The replacements weree more of a generic bass-y explosion. Nowhere near as cool.
It's kind of like the Star Wars OOT vs SE thing for me. I almost wish I'd never heard the new mix because I'm left unsatisfied with either as a result.
A better hybrid is needed.
With the "updated for the times" approach so often taken it's hard to please everybody, much less the purists who enjoyed the movie during its original release. Obviously, by today's standards the mono mix would sound crappy in an excellent movie theater. Would we sit and enjoy the movie or be upset that it sounded so bad?
In 1982, it was normal for movies to sound crappy at your local cineplex, so you didn't think about such things.
Damn technology. It's ruined it for all of us!!!
EDIT: I would bet that THX LD does sound superior to either mix on the DVD. I'd like to add it to my collection, but mostly the regular WS LD's pop up on Ebay. There was a THX last week or before, but it was more than I wanted to spend at the time.

 

[greg_t]

The thing about the mono track is that on the DVD it's compressed dolby digital at 192kbps. The LD is uncompressed PCM at ~1444kbps. The LD just has more power to my ears.

As far as star wars, I don't think the dolby tracks on the DVD's are as good as the lasers. I actually much prefer the PCM tracks from the lasers. The lasers are much better balanced in my opinion. I think the dvd sound on A new Hope is awful. Empire and Jedi are much better, but to me still don't compare to the lasers.

I thought that the Raiders of the lost Ark DVD had a great dolby 5.1 track that accurately represented the lasers PCM track. With that DVD, I thought we got the best of both worlds, clear balanced audio and a great video transfer.

 

[Lewis Besze]

The DVD is superrior in every aspect to me.While the LD's mono track is "punchy" it won't make up for the lack of "dimensions" that a mono track creates.You need at least 2 channel to convey any type of depth to the sound to make it "believable",with only 1 you get a narrow "point source".No thanks!

 

[Mattias_ka]

Sorry, I ONLY listen to the OST as well as looking at the movies in OAR. A 5.1 remix as interesting as a P&S version IMO.

 

[Jeffrey Nelson]

All this Terminator talk inspired me to pull out my collector's edition DVD and give it a spin. The new gunshot sounds are TERRIBLE. That said, the rest of the remix is quite engaging, but I still gotta have those original gunshots. If only the bass was a little stronger on the mono. Might have to look for the LD.

MILD SPOILER BELOW

A continuity error I never noticed before: when Arnie is chasing Mike & Linda in the patrol car, at the beginning of the chase, the car says "To Care And To Protect" on the fender. After Arnie crashes the car, takes off, and the cops come up to inspect, it says "Dedicated To Serve". Oops!

 

[Grant H]

One moment I noticed where the 5.1 track is a great improvement is when the endoskeleton is breaking down the door to the plant.

The sound effects on the mono track sound about as impressive as someone trying to break through a door made of aluminum foil.

The new sound effects there are awesome. Great bass.

I'm sure this movie would have had a stereo surround or at least a stereo mix when it was made had it not been for the terribly low budget, so I'm not at all opposed to the creation of a 5.1 re-mix. I wish more of the original sounds could have been used though, or at least more care had been taken to keep the sound of the film true to the original or to Cameron's intent.

Again, I hope some day in HD, it gets a re-work with Cameron's supervision. Thinking about it, this is one of the few Cameron films that doesn't have a director's special edition counterpart.

Almost certain one will come some day.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Sorry, I ONLY listen to the OST as well as looking at the movies in OAR. A 5.1 remix as interesting as a P&S version IMO.

Thank god the filmmakers didn't share your "wisdom" when they created this disc.