The Definitive A CHRISTMAS CAROL (1951): Starring Alastair Sim (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

I don't have any those video problems when I watch my copy of the '12 Christmas Carol.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

I got another Tweet from Renown confirming that the DVD based on the 2K restoration will be released this year, and the Blu-ray at a later date TBA (my guess would be next Christmas).

 

[moviebuff75]

Probably as a 65th Anniversary Edition.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I don't have any those video problems when I watch my copy of the '12 Christmas Carol.

Hi Mike!


My guess is that the playback issues only affect certain Blu-ray models, then. Just one more reason that Samsung bites when it comes to Blu-ray!


I'll have to check how it plays with my external Pioneer BD Burner setup!


CHEERS!


Tony


UPDATE: The jerky video playback doesn't appear to be an issue with the external Pioneer Blu-ray Burner.


If I recall correctly, on our Samsung, the visuals for the Leonard Maltin intro would get jerky whenever highlights from SCROOGE was shown, when the playback setting was adjusted to avoid the same for the Main Feature, itself! Thankfully, this is not the case with the Pioneer Blu-ray Burner!

 

[Tony Bensley]

I got another Tweet from Renown confirming that the DVD based on the 2K restoration will be released this year, and the Blu-ray at a later date TBA (my guess would be next Christmas).

Hi Andrew!


This goes with my prior speculation that Renown is presently lacking funds for Blu-ray replication, seeing that they have no other Blu-ray titles to date.


It's very disappointing news, regardless of the reason/s for the delay, as I was looking forward to the reviews on this one! A PAL DVD release just isn't the same, in my book. Besides that, I find the 4% speedup aspect a bit irritating (Not to mention that our Samsung Blu-ray Player won't play PAL discs!), but that's just the perfectionist in me!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[WilliamMcK]

Thank you Tony for that information regarding the jerky video. I also have that problem (switching the player to 60kHz solves it)... but it's frustrating to know that it's a "Samsung thing"!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Thank you Tony for that information regarding the jerky video. I also have that problem (switching the player to 60kHz solves it)... but it's frustrating to know that it's a "Samsung thing"!

Hi Biff!


I wouldn't say that it's exclusive to Samsung, as I've read numerous other comments of others having the same problem with the 2012 A CHRISTMAS CAROL Blu-ray! However, I've also read about others having issues with Samsung Blu-ray Players, in general.


My biggest frustration with our Samsung Blu-ray Player however, is its incapability of playing PAL Discs! A big reason I chose Samsung to begin with, is because our Samsung DVD Player (Which, for other reasons, gets little use, by me at least!) DOES play PAL Discs, which caused me to ASSUME their Blu-ray Device would do the same!


It occurs to me that the jerky video issue for A CHRISTMAS CAROL quite possibly hinges on how/if frame rate settings for a given playback device auto adjusts accordingly! To me, this would explain why some experience this issue while others don't!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Noel Aguirre]

There is a fluke near the end of the film when Scrooge awakens from the last ghost visit and looks in the mirror- you can see the director or cinematographer in the mirror's reflection!

 

[WilliamMcK]

Thanks for the further clarification Tony!

I wouldn't say that it's exclusive to Samsung, as I've read numerous other comments of others having the same problem with the 2012 A CHRISTMAS CAROL Blu-ray! However, I've also read about others having issues with Samsung Blu-ray Players, in general.


It occurs to me that the jerky video issue for A CHRISTMAS CAROL quite possibly hinges on how/if frame rate settings for a given playback device auto adjusts accordingly! To me, this would explain why some experience this issue while others don't!

 

[Tony Bensley]

There is a fluke near the end of the film when Scrooge awakens from the last ghost visit and looks in the mirror- you can see the director or cinematographer in the mirror's reflection!

Hi Noel!


Somebody actually reported this several pages back. I'm curious as to who made the original discovery, as it is quite a good spot!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Will Krupp]

Thank you Tony for that information regarding the jerky video. I also have that problem (switching the player to 60kHz solves it)... but it's frustrating to know that it's a "Samsung thing"!

It occurs to me that the jerky video issue for A CHRISTMAS CAROL quite possibly hinges on how/if frame rate settings for a given playback device auto adjusts accordingly! To me, this would explain why some experience this issue while others don't!


CHEERS!


Tony

While I gave up on Samsung players awhile ago (the later models, IMO, simply aren't as good or as solid as their early players were) this seems odd to me. Jerkiness at 24fps shouldn't have anything to do with the player. I mean, 24fps either IS or it ISN'T, you know what I mean?


In my experience, jerky playback is more likely related to the display you're using and how it responds to 24fps. I'm not sure what displays you're using, but are we sure they are capable of proper 24 frame playback? For flat panels, you need a minimum native refresh rate of 120hz (the lowest number that both 24 and 60 can evenly divide into) to play back 24fps with no pulldown. If not, switching 24fps "on" at the source (the player) simply switches the pulldown from being applied at the player to having it be applied at the display. A 60hz panel will never play 24fps the right way no matter the setting and some discs may look worse than others. Most players are better at pulldown than most displays so it may wind up making the picture worse. It can be tricky to tell as Samsung 60hz TV's, for example, used to show "24hz" on their info panels which fooled people into believing they were properly playing the frame rate but they weren't, they were simply identifying the SOURCE of the video feed.


Just a thought, as I've never heard of a brand of player being better or worse at playing back 24fps as all blu-rays and most DVD's are already encoded that way. The player doesn't actually have to DO anything as turning "on" 24fps just tells the player to ignore the flags that would normally lead it to adding 2:3 pulldown. It actually does LESS work than playing back at 60hz.


Do you turn on any frame interpolation? That will fuck up the movement onscreen like crazy, too.

 

[Tony Bensley]

While I gave up on Samsung players awhile ago (the later models, IMO, simply aren't as good or as solid as their early players were) this seems odd to me. Jerkiness at 24fps shouldn't have anything to do with the player. I mean, 24fps either IS or it ISN'T, you know what I mean?


In my experience, jerky playback is more likely related to the display you're using and how it responds to 24fps. I'm not sure what displays you're using, but are we sure they are capable of proper 24 frame playback? For flat panels, you need a minimum native refresh rate of 120hz (the lowest number that both 24 and 60 can evenly divide into) to play back 24fps with no pulldown. If not, switching 24fps "on" at the source (the player) simply switches the pulldown from being applied at the player to having it be applied at the display. A 60hz panel will never play 24fps the right way no matter the setting and some discs may look worse than others. Samsung 60hz TV's, for example, used to show "24hz" on their info panels which fooled people into believing they were properly playing the frame rate but they weren't, they were simply identifying the SOURCE of the video feed.


Just a thought, as I've never heard of a brand of player being better or worse at playing back at 24fps as all blu-rays and most DVD's are already encoded that way. The player doesn't actually have to DO anything.

Hi Will!


I believe the overriding issue has to do with the SCROOGE VCI Blu-ray, itself.


Insofar as Blu-ray Devices, I don't believe that I ever inferred that some were better or worse at 24 fps playback, but rather, that some players are better at auto switching between playback modes than others. In regards to our Samsung Blu-ray Player, I've lost count of how often I've had to change playback modes, plus make other adjustments to facilitate the best possible DVD-R playback! Frankly, I don't recall ever having to make so many necessary adjustments on any Video Disc Player we've ever had prior!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Will Krupp]

Insofar as Blu-ray Devices, I don't believe that I ever inferred that some were better or worse at 24 fps playback, but rather, that some players are better at auto switching between playback modes than others. In regards to our Samsung Blu-ray Player, I've lost count of how often I've had to change playback modes, plus make other adjustments to facilitate the best possible DVD-R playback! Frankly, I don't recall ever having to make so many necessary adjustments on any Video Disc Player we've ever had prior!


CHEERS!


Tony

I'm sorry Tony, I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the ability of the Samsung player at 24fps. I guess I'm still confused as to what you mean by "auto switching between playback modes." Turning "on" 24fps tells the player to simply play whatever's on the disc "as is" and turns off all flags. If the source is encoded at 24fps it sends it to the display at 24fps and if the source is encoded at 60i it sends it at 60i so there still shouldn't be any switching that the player needs to handle. I guess I don't get what you mean


BTW, after my last Samsung player (and I mean that literally) I switched to a Sony player and (surprisingly) couldn't be happier. I still love Samsung TV's but I think the blu-ray players have turned into cheap junk. Put a new one on your Christmas list!!!

 

[Harry-N]

Hi Noel!


Somebody actually reported this several pages back. I'm curious as to who made the original discovery, as it is quite a good spot!


CHEERS!


Tony

You can credit my wife if you'd like. She spotted that on a grainy television print back in the 70s or 80s! I'm sure others have noticed it along the way.


Harry

 

[Tony Bensley]

I'm sorry Tony, I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the ability of the Samsung player at 24fps. I guess I'm still confused as to what you mean by "auto switching between playback modes." Turning "on" 24fps tells the player to simply play whatever's on the disc "as is" and turns off all flags. If the source is encoded at 24fps it sends it to the display at 24fps and if the source is encoded at 60i it sends it at 60i so there still shouldn't be any switching that the player needs to handle. I guess I don't get what you mean


BTW, after my last Samsung player (and I mean that literally) I switched to a Sony player and (surprisingly) couldn't be happier. I still love Samsung TV's but I think the blu-ray players have turned into cheap junk. Put a new one on your Christmas list!!!

Hi Will!


All I know for certain is when I changeover from the 24 frame setting on the Samsung Blu-ray Player, as some others who have encountered playback issues with the A CHRISTMAS CAROL VCI Blu-ray, the visual movements become smooth for the Main Feature. However, in my case, some of the Bonus Features will then have jerky visual movements, instead! However, some devices, such as my Pioneer Blu-ray Burner playback the Main Feature AND Bonus Features just fine, without my having to make ANY adjustments.


In my opinion, the important aspect, is that the jerky video playback for the aforementioned Blu-ray is DEFINITELY an issue for SOME consumers, and with SOME playback devices!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[WilliamMcK]

Just to be clear... I have a Samsung blu-ray player and a Samsung HDTV... there have only been two blu-rays that do not play properly when the player is in the 24fps mode: VCI's A CHRISTMAS CAROL and TCM's first issue of LADY FROM SHANGHAI. My set is 24fps capable and all other blu-rays play properly (and I don't have to manually switch to 60fps for DVDs or the occasional blu-ray that isn't at 24fps... such as Criterion's PHANTOM CARRIAGE or Fox's Todd-AO OKLAHOMA!).

 

[Will Krupp]

Just to be clear... I have a Samsung blu-ray player and a Samsung HDTV... there have only been two blu-rays that do not play properly when the player is in the 24fps mode: VCI's A CHRISTMAS CAROL and TCM's first issue of LADY FROM SHANGHAI. My set is 24fps capable and all other blu-rays play properly (and I don't have to manually switch to 60fps for DVDs or the occasional blu-ray that isn't at 24fps... such as Criterion's PHANTOM CARRIAGE or Fox's Todd-AO OKLAHOMA!).

That's so ODD (no offense!)


The first guess would be an encoding error on the disc itself but then the issue should be widespread.


Is your TV 120hz then? Do the Samsung blu-ray players have a 24fps option now for DVD's (just out of curiosity?) My last one didn't.


I love my Samsung TV, though.

 

[Tony Bensley]

That's so ODD (no offense!)


The first guess would be an encoding error on the disc itself but then the issue should be widespread.


Is your TV 120hz then? Do the Samsung blu-ray players have a 24fps option now for DVD's (just out of curiosity?) My last one didn't.


I love my Samsung TV, though.

Hi Will!


I can say that our Samsung Blu-ray Player's 24 fps setting also covers the DVD format, at least I THINK so!


The problem is, I can't access it at the moment, as our attached 32 inch Toshiba 16x9 LCD Flat Screen is currently being used! I am 99% certain of the above, and will amend my post if I discover otherwise once I get to double check this feature!


Insofar as the encoding error causing jerky video playback, I've read posts on various Forums by a number of people complaining about it for the A CHRISTMAS CAROL VCI Blu-ray. Thus, I'd say that the issue is fairly widespread, but is one that is somewhat hidden by the fact the undesirable results don't present themselves on ALL playback devices, but only on some!


Please kindly pardon my ignorance, but don't all North American Based TV's have the same hz designation? I thought that would be standard!


CHEERS!


Tony


UPDATE: Here's a screenshot of our Samsung Blu-ray display options, confirming that the Movie Frame feature isn't limited to just Blu-ray:

It's when the above is set to "Auto" that the VCI Blu-ray of A CHRISTMAS CAROL Feature Film's playback is jerky; whereas, when set to "Off", clips from the Film that play within the Bonus Features become jerky, instead!

 

[Will Krupp]

Please kindly pardon my ignorance, but don't all North American Based TV's have the same hz designation? I thought that would be standard!


CHEERS!


Tony

Up until less than ten years ago, all North American TV's "refreshed" at a rate of 60hz per second (tied to our electrical cycles.) While LCD/LED HDTV's are still based on the 60hz model, they now offer higher refresh rates in multiples of 60, There are 60hz, 120hz, 240hz and even 480hz (though I suspect at least the highest one is achieved only by means of frame interpolation and I'm not sure what gains are really made by the top two rates as it seems like overkill.) 120hz is the minimum native refresh rate (without frame interpolation) that is required for a panel to display 24fps AT 24fps. Since there is no mathematical way that 24fps can divide evenly in to 60hz, the 60hz panel can only display 24fps material with pulldown added either at the player or at the display itself. At a constant refresh rate of 120, 30fps material is flashed four times per second and 24fps material is flashed five times per second (a simplification but you get my drift.) The numbers divide evenly. 60hz panels are never 24fps capable, regardless of what you send to it.

 

[Will Krupp]

UPDATE: Here's a screenshot of our Samsung Blu-ray display options, confirming that the Movie Frame feature isn't limited to just Blu-ray:

PIC_0780.JPG


It's when the above is set to "Auto" that the VCI Blu-ray of A CHRISTMAS CAROL Feature Film's playback is jerky; whereas, when set to "Off", clips from the Film that play within the Bonus Features become jerky, instead!

That LOOKS like the menu from my old, much missed Samsung (that I loved) player but that old "movie mode" WAS limited to blu-ray material. Yours may be different but, until at least last year, I don't think Samsung players supported 24fps for DVD.