The Definitive A CHRISTMAS CAROL (1951): Starring Alastair Sim (1 Viewer)

[Tony Bensley]

Being for the benefit of those proud custodians of VCI Entertainment's A CHRISTMAS CAROL Blu-ray who have experienced an unfortunate series of visual playback issues (Jerky movements that appear to be mostly limited to the Main Feature, and clips from it within the Extras!), I have prepared a list of all of the Disc's Features, with the required Movie Frame (24 Fs) setting ("Auto" or "Off") for optimal playback.


Anyone not affected by the above can either blissfully ignore this list, or else keep it as a handy reference, should the need for it unexpectedly arise!


A CHRISTMAS CAROL - Main Feature (Off)

(The accompanying Leonard Maltin Intro is unaffected by either setting! It plays wonderfully, either way!)


Extras:

The Darker Side Of A Classic (Off)

Distributing 'A Christmas Carol' (Auto)

Life And Films Of Brian Desmond Hurst (Off)

Too Good To Be Shown Only At Christmas (Off)

Scrooge (Silent) (Auto or Off)

Bleak House (Silent)* (Off)

Original British Theatrical Trailer (Off)

American Trailer (Off)

Scrooge Revisited (Off)


* Though no clips from the 1951 Feature are included in this Extra, jerky visual playback appears to be an issue under the "Auto" setting!


CHEERS!

 

[Tony Bensley]

That LOOKS like the menu from my old, much missed Samsung (that I loved) player but that old "movie mode" WAS limited to blu-ray material. Yours may be different but, until at least last year, I don't think Samsung players supported 24fps for DVD.

Hi Will!


I recall having used it for some DVD-R's awhile back, as I ran into some really funky playback issues where the audio would cut out every 30 seconds (Sounds like an audio setting issue, but I believe it was somehow tied to the frame rate?), or something like that!


Needless to say, I haven't found Samsung Players to be the most user friendly devices in the world, and they do require a bit of hands on--OK for me, but not for my wife!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Will Krupp]

Needless to say, I haven't found Samsung Players to be the most user friendly devices in the world, and they do require a bit of hands on--OK for me, but not for my wife!

Dump it and get a Sony! New players are cheap and they can do so much more than the old ones could!

 

[Tony Bensley]

Dump it and get a Sony! New players are cheap and they can do so much more than the old ones could!

Hi Will!


Despite the minor annoyances, I can't justify replacing the Samsung Blu-ray Player at present. Most Discs actually play on it just fine--There's just the odd one that's a bit problematic, like the SCROOGE VCI Blu-ray. Besides, I have an external Pioneer Blu-ray Burner for my PC, that I can use as backup. I'm really thankful for that device!


When the Samsung starts showing signs of conking out, I'll shop around for something new, then.


Thanks for the tip, nevertheless!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[davidmatychuk]

Here how I rate a Blu-Ray player, in one easy step:


1. It must play VCI's "A Christmas Carol" Blu-Ray properly.


My rating system for VHS, laserdisc, and DVD players is remarkably similar.

 

[WilliamMcK]

I love this post!!!

Here how I rate a Blu-Ray player, in one easy step:


1. It must play VCI's "A Christmas Carol" Blu-Ray properly.


My rating system for VHS, laserdisc, and DVD players is remarkably similar.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Updated Renown DVD cover art:

 

[Tony Bensley]

Updated Renown DVD cover art:

Hi Andrew!


But Renown still has Hermione's surname "Badly" (It should be Baddeley, NOT Badaley!) misspelled!


It's very disappointing that we're not getting the Blu-ray THIS Christmas! Hopefully, the sales for the DVD will help Renown to finally begin Blu-ray replication (I'm just assuming that's the issue!), but I'm not interested in PAL formatted versions (Not to mention the colorization!) of this title at this point, with the close enough to perfect VCI Blu-ray!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Marvin]

Dump it and get a Sony! New players are cheap and they can do so much more than the old ones could!

I have the screen jump issues on a Sony Blu-ray player (not a new one; I think I got it in 2008). I'll have to check the menus at some point to see if I can change this setting.

 

[Will Krupp]

I have the screen jump issues on a Sony Blu-ray player (not a new one; I think I got it in 2008). I'll have to check the menus at some point to see if I can change this setting.

Since not everyone gets the same effect, I still suspect the issues are display and not player related.

 

[Tony Bensley]

While I gave up on Samsung players awhile ago (the later models, IMO, simply aren't as good or as solid as their early players were) this seems odd to me. Jerkiness at 24fps shouldn't have anything to do with the player. I mean, 24fps either IS or it ISN'T, you know what I mean?


In my experience, jerky playback is more likely related to the display you're using and how it responds to 24fps. I'm not sure what displays you're using, but are we sure they are capable of proper 24 frame playback? For flat panels, you need a minimum native refresh rate of 120hz (the lowest number that both 24 and 60 can evenly divide into) to play back 24fps with no pulldown. If not, switching 24fps "on" at the source (the player) simply switches the pulldown from being applied at the player to having it be applied at the display. A 60hz panel will never play 24fps the right way no matter the setting and some discs may look worse than others. Most players are better at pulldown than most displays so it may wind up making the picture worse. It can be tricky to tell as Samsung 60hz TV's, for example, used to show "24hz" on their info panels which fooled people into believing they were properly playing the frame rate but they weren't, they were simply identifying the SOURCE of the video feed.


Just a thought, as I've never heard of a brand of player being better or worse at playing back 24fps as all blu-rays and most DVD's are already encoded that way. The player doesn't actually have to DO anything as turning "on" 24fps just tells the player to ignore the flags that would normally lead it to adding 2:3 pulldown. It actually does LESS work than playing back at 60hz.


Do you turn on any frame interpolation? That will fuck up the movement onscreen like crazy, too.

Hi Will!


Upon checking the specs of our Toshiba Flat Screen, it turns out the refresh rate is 60hz, NOT 120hz!


That said, for me this still doesn't explain why the VCI Entertainment A CHRISTMAS CAROL is the only Blu-ray I've had the jerky visual issue with, other than that there must also be something relating to the encoding of its various Features! Otherwise, why is it that while I need to have the Movie Frame (24Fs) mode set to "Off" for the Main Feature and most of the BD Extras, one of them actually requires the "Auto" setting to avoid jerky visual movement? I'd say the Disc encoding is at least, partly to blame!


For what it's worth, the same Extra (Distributing 'A Christmas Carol') that requires the Movie Frame "Auto" setting on our Samsung Blu-ray Player for proper playback on our 60hz 32 inch 720p Toshiba LCD Flat Screen, is also the one Extra with the jerky visual playback when viewing via the 60hz display on my Acer Laptop. Thus, that would appear to be the other culprit behind the jerky visuals!


CHEERS!


Tony


P.S. Having checked within the related Picture / Display settings for our TV and Blu-ray Player, I found nothing that relates to frame interpolation. Thus I believe that can be ruled out, in my case!

 

[Dr Griffin]

Is a Blu-ray definitely coming? Is this simply a DVD master due to costs, and would not be good enough for BD? Is Blu-ray replication really the problem here? I get the feeling that Renown was told more work and cost would be needed for a Blu-ray master and cold feet prevailed. We know how expensive it is getting to deliver an acceptable BD master with all the improving technology.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Is a Blu-ray definitely coming? Is this simply a DVD master due to costs, and would not be good enough for BD? Is Blu-ray replication really the problem here? I get the feeling that Renown was told more work and cost would be needed for a Blu-ray master and cold feet prevailed. We know how expensive it is getting to deliver an acceptable BD master with all the improving technology.

Hi Stanley!


Being that the DVD cover indicates a "Fully restored 2K transfer from the original film elements", I think it's fair to state that the lack of an acceptable Blu-ray master is NOT the issue, here!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Is a Blu-ray definitely coming? Is this simply a DVD master due to costs, and would not be good enough for BD? Is Blu-ray replication really the problem here? I get the feeling that Renown was told more work and cost would be needed for a Blu-ray master and cold feet prevailed. We know how expensive it is getting to deliver an acceptable BD master with all the improving technology.

Yes, Renown assured me that the Blu-ray is still coming, it's just been postponed to a date TBA. Unfortunately we don't know what the hold up is, but Scrooge will be their first Blu-ray.

 

[Tony Bensley]

I have the screen jump issues on a Sony Blu-ray player (not a new one; I think I got it in 2008). I'll have to check the menus at some point to see if I can change this setting.

Hi Marvin!


Besides the VCI Blu-ray itself, it appears the common denominator is a TV/Monitor with a 60hz refresh rate, or at least a refresh rate that's not divisible by 24 frames per second. You might want to check your TV Model's specs to see whether this applies in your case, though frankly, I'd be surprised if it doesn't!


This finding is actually a bit of a bummer for me, as it would have been much less expensive to replace the Blu-ray Player than our TV, which is unfortunately not an option, at present!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Harry-N]

Being for the benefit of those proud custodians of VCI Entertainment's A CHRISTMAS CAROL Blu-ray who have experienced an unfortunate series of visual playback issues (Jerky movements that appear to be mostly limited to the Main Feature, and clips from it within the Extras!), I have prepared a list of all of the Disc's Features, with the required Movie Frame (24 Fs) setting ("Auto" or "Off") for optimal playback.


Anyone not affected by the above can either blissfully ignore this list, or else keep it as a handy reference, should the need for it unexpectedly arise!


A CHRISTMAS CAROL - Main Feature (Off)

(The accompanying Leonard Maltin Intro is unaffected by either setting! It plays wonderfully, either way!)


Extras:

The Darker Side Of A Classic (Off)

Distributing 'A Christmas Carol' (Auto)

Life And Films Of Brian Desmond Hurst (Off)

Too Good To Be Shown Only At Christmas (Off)

Scrooge (Silent) (Auto or Off)

Bleak House (Silent)* (Off)

Original British Theatrical Trailer (Off)

American Trailer (Off)

Scrooge Revisited (Off)


* Though no clips from the 1951 Feature are included in this Extra, jerky visual playback appears to be an issue under the "Auto" setting!


CHEERS!

With a newish Blu-ray player (Sony-5500) and a newish TV Sony 32 R330, I thought I'd experiment with this disc. I have the Diamond Edition Blu-ray. The TV is a low-end model for use in the den, and the Blu-ray player is a mid-line model to provide some smart-tv type streaming functions.


I'm pretty sure the TV is just a 60hz model: http://www.kisselectronicsnyc.com/TV-and-Video-Televisions/c28_208/p2527/Sony-KDL32R330B-32-Inch-720p-60Hz-LED-TV/product_info.html


With all of the Blu-ray player's 24p settings set to "Auto" (and there are four of them, Blu-ray ROM, DVD-ROM, Data-ROM, and Streaming-ROM), the Diamond Edition SCROOGE plays perfectly fine. It looks normal and film-like. The weird thing is that Leonard Maltin's open looks a little bit jerky in his head motions. And all of the extras that have modern elements look a little jerky, yet the film clips all look smooth as silk.


That second extra ('Distributing') is the reverse. The modern elements look OK, but the beginning film elements are jerky - but it also looks like that segment of Scrooge dancing is slowed down a bit.


I don't really care all that much. Most of the stuff is watchable - and the film looks really great, maybe for the first time ever.


My point in mentioning this is that I did dig the Blu-ray out to check it against Tony's stories, and thought it odd that things seemed backwards from the way he was reporting it (I think! It's a confusing scenario at best!). And that this might provide a bit more evidence that there's something odd about the encoding of this disc. I'm no expert in trying to figure this out.


By the way, my Sony Blu-ray player has three settings (Auto, On, Off) for each of the four 24p settings. I didn't take the time to check each of the many extras with all three settings. Like I said, the film plays like a film and that's all I need. If anyone desires a specific extra or scene within an extra at a particular setting, let me know.


My experience with Samsung was not good. This TV actually replaced a Christmas-gift Samsung that had (oddly!) jerky motion on standard-def TV channels. The Sony (my longtime favorite brand) exhibits no such anomaly. The Samsung experience left a bad taste in my mouth.


Harry

 

[Marvin]

Hi Marvin!


Besides the VCI Blu-ray itself, it appears the common denominator is a TV/Monitor with a 60hz refresh rate, or at least a refresh rate that's not divisible by 24 frames per second. You might want to check your TV Model's specs to see whether this applies in your case, though frankly, I'd be surprised if it doesn't!


This finding is actually a bit of a bummer for me, as it would have been much less expensive to replace the Blu-ray Player than our TV, which is unfortunately not an option, at present!


CHEERS!


Tony

It's an old RPTV (Toshiba 50H72) and the manual doesn't list a refresh rate. In any case, I was planning on replacing this set with a newer one within the next month or so, so maybe the problem will go away.


Edit: I see now that there's a "cinema mode" option that can be set to "film" or "video". It's on the default "film" setting. I suppose I can play with this if I still have this set the next time I watch the movie.

 

[Tony Bensley]

With a newish Blu-ray player (Sony-5500) and a newish TV Sony 32 R330, I thought I'd experiment with this disc. I have the Diamond Edition Blu-ray. The TV is a low-end model for use in the den, and the Blu-ray player is a mid-line model to provide some smart-tv type streaming functions.


I'm pretty sure the TV is just a 60hz model: http://www.kisselectronicsnyc.com/TV-and-Video-Televisions/c28_208/p2527/Sony-KDL32R330B-32-Inch-720p-60Hz-LED-TV/product_info.html


With all of the Blu-ray player's 24p settings set to "Auto" (and there are four of them, Blu-ray ROM, DVD-ROM, Data-ROM, and Streaming-ROM), the Diamond Edition SCROOGE plays perfectly fine. It looks normal and film-like. The weird thing is that Leonard Maltin's open looks a little bit jerky in his head motions. And all of the extras that have modern elements look a little jerky, yet the film clips all look smooth as silk.


That second extra ('Distributing') is the reverse. The modern elements look OK, but the beginning film elements are jerky - but it also looks like that segment of Scrooge dancing is slowed down a bit.


I don't really care all that much. Most of the stuff is watchable - and the film looks really great, maybe for the first time ever.


My point in mentioning this is that I did dig the Blu-ray out to check it against Tony's stories, and thought it odd that things seemed backwards from the way he was reporting it (I think! It's a confusing scenario at best!). And that this might provide a bit more evidence that there's something odd about the encoding of this disc. I'm no expert in trying to figure this out.


By the way, my Sony Blu-ray player has three settings (Auto, On, Off) for each of the four 24p settings. I didn't take the time to check each of the many extras with all three settings. Like I said, the film plays like a film and that's all I need. If anyone desires a specific extra or scene within an extra at a particular setting, let me know.


My experience with Samsung was not good. This TV actually replaced a Christmas-gift Samsung that had (oddly!) jerky motion on standard-def TV channels. The Sony (my longtime favorite brand) exhibits no such anomaly. The Samsung experience left a bad taste in my mouth.


Harry

Hi Harry!


I thought I had encountered jerky motions with Leonard Maltin's head when I viewed this last year, yet his segment played just fine with both settings this time around!


Unlike your Sony Blu-ray Player, with its On, Off and Auto settings, our Samsung is limited to the last 2 settings.


To me, the point seems to be that with a 60hz Monitor, due in part to Disc encoding issues, there's going to be some visual trade offs, regardless of whatever Display setting is chosen within the Blu-ray Player GUI.


When viewing the Extras in their entirety last Christmas, I do recall encountering some issues with jerky visuals during a few of the modern segments, though I believe it was much more frequent during the SCROOGE 51' film clips! In assembling my list, I only checked parts of each of the Extras, along with the Leonard Maltin Intro and Main Feature, of course!


Damn 60hz TV / Monitors!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Tony Bensley]

It's an old RPTV (Toshiba 50H72) and the manual doesn't list a refresh rate. In any case, I was planning on replacing this set with a newer one within the next month or so, so maybe the problem will go away.

Hi Marvin!


Though the online manuals don't list it as such, due to the age of your set, I think your refresh rate is most likely 60hz.


If I were in your enviable position, I'd be looking specifically for the 120hz spec, especially as the 60hz setup is proving to be a bit of a Humbug!


Good luck!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[Marvin]

Hi Marvin!


Though the online manuals don't list it as such, due to the age of your set, I think your refresh rate is most likely 60hz.


If I were in your enviable position, I'd be looking specifically for the 120hz spec, especially as the 60hz setup is proving to be a bit of a Humbug!


Good luck!


CHEERS!


Tony

The ghost of "TV sets yet to come" has confirmed my likely next set is indeed 120hz!