Tested Paradigm Servo-15 today - Long (1 Viewer)

[James Bergeron]

Cam, it was for the RB-3's! His cost was $900! The RF-3's CAN'T be $680, you must mean RB-3's, still I wonder how cost can be that much different from store to store. $600??? They usually sell for $1098 so he was giving me $100, so they make $200 on the speakers which sounds reasonable, are you suggesting that the store you shop at normally makes $700 on a pair of $1000 speakers???
The RF's at this store are $1300 so I could probably get them for $1100 I'm sure they aren't making $800 on a pair of speakers, that is unheard of!
Here's the store.
http://www.dumoulin.com/
Just go to hi-fi speakers bookshelf or floorstander. The RF's go for around $700 USD most places up to $800 the RB's sell for $649 USD!
Come on, if you can get them at that price, they must be hot! I don't think a klipsh dealer employee could get them at that price! What's this guy's regular price?

 

[Sihan Goi]

What exactly does the X-30 do, other than being a crossover? I have my Servo-15 connected to my TagMcLaren AV32R without the X-30, and it already sounds great to me...

 

[Cam S]

Cam, it was for the RB-3's! His cost was $900! The RF-3's CAN'T be $680, you must mean RB-3's, still I wonder how cost can be that much different from store to store. $600??? They usually sell for $1098 so he was giving me $100, so they make $200 on the speakers which sounds reasonable, are you suggesting that the store you shop at normally makes $700 on a pair of $1000 speakers???

Did the salesman show you paper work stating the cost of each speaker to the company? I paid $375 for my RB-3's, and $375 for my RC-3. I can get the RF-3's for $680, the RF-5's for $1350, and the RF-7's for $2100, yes, $2100 if you can believe that. Speakers are marked up ALOT, and I've found this with every speaker. Paradigm aren't as much, but still a lot.
Next time your in the store ask what their cost is, as most salesman don't mind telling you.
It helps to know people

 

[Cam S]

Hey Paul, Andre is NEVER in the shop so the chances of reaching him are slim and none. The best bet would be to talk to the manager. In Kelowna, Derek in the Manager, but I'm not sure of the other stores.

 

[Miguel Stanic]

Isn't the Servo-15 a VERY OLD subwoofer. Hasn't it been out for about 2 or 3 years now at least. If so, isn't it's technology outdated. How can it's internal components, drivers for example, compete with subs from SVS (for example) that are continously being modified and refined. Can someone please tell me how old this sub is. It's a relic amongst subs isn't it?

I'm in the market for a new sub and I'm leaning towards and SVS PC+ 20-39 but I'm in Canada so the Paradigm prices are much more attractive. Currently, I have a B&W ASW2000 sub. How does this compare with the Servo-15?

 

[PaulT]

Sihan - see brucek's post above re the X30. I have heard pluses and minuses as some of the early units had noise problems, but it seems to be something that will get used as per his message so I definately will be getting one with the sub.

Cam - thanks I'll talk to Derek

Miguel, yes the Servo-15 is a few years old, however it is still at the top of the Reference line for Paradigm. Whether they add to it with the new Reference Signature line I don't know. If they do it will be a lot more $$ than the 15.

As per my original post, I can't justify 1650CDN on something (SVS) I can't test/hear, even with their good reputation, return and service policy. If I don't like it will I have to eat shipping and border fees back to USA, I believe so....so at this point the Paradigm line sounds pretty good to me. I have the skills and equipment for DIY but not the time.

 

[Jeff Kleinberg]

Miquel Said

Isn't the Servo-15 a VERY OLD subwoofer. Hasn't it been out for about 2 or 3 years now at least. If so, isn't it's technology outdated. How can it's internal components, drivers for example, compete with subs from SVS (for example) that are continously being modified and refined. Can someone please tell me how old this sub is. It's a relic amongst subs isn't it?

ROTFLMAO
No, In all seriousness, Miquel the goal of a sub is to produce deep accurate bass with low distortion and high spl over as broad a frequency range as possible. The servo 15 does this with aplomb. Yes, technological changes(materials with higher stiffness to mass ratio's etc..) can help make this cheaper, lighter, more efficient etc, but the technology already exists to facilate great accurate bass. Technology will just allow them to put it in smaller packages. The servo 15 is one of the best subwoofer you can buy, period. This is not going to change no matter what technology does. It plays to below 20hz, and is fast and accurate for music. If your in Canada there is no better price/performance sub out there, unless you have a small room or prefer sheer spl over extension in which case the 2200 would be a better choice. Miguel go to ecoustics.com and read some reviews.

Jeff

 

[James Bergeron]

Sorry don't want to hijack this thread.

Cam, he didn't show me paper work but he showed me his computer screen. I've bought lots of stuff there and always get a great price. I actually got my amp at cost. His screen said $900 his price was $1098.

How much does this store you go to sell them for regularly? Could you get them for $500? I'd pay YOU to get me a pair for $500!

 

[Jens Raethel]

I am a happy owner of a Servo-15 and the x-30,
how should I set the volume knob on the back of the sub?
Should it be set at max, and then tune the volume at the x-30?
I now have it set at about 50% on the servo 15.

 

[David Barteaux]

Will the Servo-15 beat out a M&K MX-150 THX sub on the low end and also music?

 

[Miguel Stanic]

Thanks guys.

Didn't the Servo 15 come out around the time that Dolby Digital and DTS were making their appearance. If so, how does this sub handle tracks that are so much more dynamic than the older Dolby Pro Logic days. I'm going to listen to this sub but I keep getting caught up with all the hype around the SVS and HSU subs. As well, when this Servo-15 was first introduced, wasn't it prices around the $3000 MSRP range in Canada. What is it's current MSRP in Canadian dollars and can it realistically be had for $1300. If so, that's quite a price drop. It must mean that the Servo-15 is on it's way to being replaced by Paradigm

What about this X30 stuff? How much does the price get driven up with that? Is this only convenience so that you can adjust the sub's settings without having to go to the back of the sub or is there some real value in this stuff.

I have an Anthem PREAMP AVM20. I intend to turn off the sub's LPF or raise it to it's highest level so that I can let the Anthem manage the bass. If I am going to do this, is the X30 needed. Don't they have several X models?

Please excuse the ignorance as I am not very techie. I know about HT quite well and think I have a decent setup but I am not an expert in bass management or subwoofers. I want the best sub setup with no bottoming out of the sub or resonance.

Yesterday, I auditioned a B&W ASW CDM sub and it was awful. During the bedroom scene of The Haunting the sub bottomed out horribly and it's cone rattle as if it was busted. In all fairness to the sub, the room was terrible and full of resonance and I'm sure the sub was not even close to being setup correctly on the Pioneer 49TXi that it was playing off of.

Please help me as I want to replace my B&W ASW2000 with the correct sub where I will notice a huge improvement whilst not breaking the bank either. I am primarily a movie addict but I do like good bass in my music as well so both sides are important....thanks.

 

[Jeff Kleinberg]

Hi,
One again Miquel a great sub is a great sub regardless of production year. YES, the servo 15 can handle DTS/DD dynamic tracks. What part of it being one of the best subs out there period are you not understanding. There is no known replacement from paradigm coming. The price is 1300$ US no canadian, so no real price drop. READ REVIEWS and LISTEN. No you dont need an x30 with the anthem(I have it as well), the subs input has no crossover, so just use the anthem.

Jeff

 

[PaulT]

Miguel / David,
this is quoted from the 'Best HOME THEATER Subwoofer' thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=110302

many people rely on the Bass Gurus themselves to provide honest numbers and technical data such as Tom Nousaine(probably the most knowlegable bass guy on earth).
These are his figures for most of the popular subs out on the market.
"All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter SPL mic distance,10% distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at
1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz.
( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2400) to his newer *large* room(7500).
SVS Dual 20-39cs+600w amp 115.5 /20hz~97 / 25hz ~111.8 / 31hz ~120.9(124dB peaks)
.
STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99 / 25hz~106
VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9
20-39cs - 109.5 / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB
VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1
MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102
Paradigm PW2200 - 108 / 20hz~84 / 25hz~104dB (112.8dB peak)
VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1 25hz~102.1dB
Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz
VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99
HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz
HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB
Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db/20hz~92(112.4dB peak)
KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 *
Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89
POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90
Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95
BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 *
MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95
VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak)
JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95
KLIPSCH KSW12 - 104.9 / 25hz~90
Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85
Phase Technology PC500(towers) - 103.6
Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94
BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz *
PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94
Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak)
Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB
VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87
MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86
ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85
INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak)
KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90
PSB subsonic 3i - 100 / 28hz *
MISSION ms70asa - 100/32hz~92dB
SUNFIRE Jr. - 100 / 25hz~95
VELODYNE VLF810 - 100 / 25hz~91
Canbridge - 100 / 20hz ~82dB
POLK PSW350 - 99.8 / 25hz~82
VELODYNE FSR12 - 99.7 / 20hz
JAMO E 8sub - 99 / 25hz~ 86dB
VELODYNE VA1012 - 99 / 29hz
JBL PB10 - 99 / 25hz 82
POLK RMDS-1 - 98.6 / 25hz- 77
VELODYNE FSR10 - 98.4 / 20hz
BW asw2500 - 98 / 25hz~86dB
ENERGY ES12xl - 98 / 28hz *
Paradigm PDR10 - 98 / 25hz
PHASE tech power8 - 98 / 25hz~84
Polk psw250 - 97.3 / 32hz~91
ATHENA S3 - 97.0 / 25hz~87
Energy S8.2 - 97 / 25hz ~82
VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81
MIRAGE frx s10 - 97 / 25hz~84
JAMO sw505 - 97
Klispch KSW10 - 96.9 / 25hz~85
TANNOY PS110 - 96.8 / 20hz~71 / 25hz~84
CANTON AS25 - 96.8 / 25hz~80
MK V-1250thx - 96 / 25hz~86
Atlantic technology 4.5 - 96 / 25hz~82
ATHENA S2 - 96 / 25hz~87
ACI titan - 96dB / 25hz~80
PSB alphasubzero - 95.2 / 32hz~88
Aura Lss-107A - 95.2 / 25hz~73
Celestion cswII - 95 / 25hz~78
Paradigm 90P(towers) - 95 / 20hz
GALLO MPS-150 - 95.0 / 25hz~86
ENERGY ENCORE - 94.4 / 25hz~78
ENERGY XL8 - 94 / 25hz~78
POLK PS-120 - 94 / 32hz -no SPL given
Wharfedale Modus - 93.1dB
DEF TECH BP2002TL Tower - 92.3 / 25hz ~80(single tower)
Paradigm PD8 91.4 / 25hz~73dB
MK k9 - 90.1 / 25hz~77
Cerwin Vega hts15 - 89 (107 from 40-100hz) / 39hz
DEF TECH Pro Tower400 - 89 / 25hz~81d (single tower)
DEF TECH BP 2006TL Tower - 88.4 / 25hz ~73(single tower)
ATHENA P1 88.5/ 32hz~85.5
-----------the following use a 25-50hz range----------
Boston Acoustics VR2000 -109dB
Hsu Research 12V (150w) -106.5dB / 25hz - no SPL given
Cerwin Vega HT-PWR12 -105.9dB / 25hz - no SPL given
BW asw800 -105.1dB / 2

For sheer SPL, the SVS, Velodyne and Paradigm units all hold their own. What I heard during testing of the Srvo-15, especially for Music, was the 'tightness' or 'single note Bass', which is typical of a Servo Controlled Sub.
The MSRP for the 15 is 1800CDN, and I believe that Includes the X30 Crossover. They have an X10, 20 and 30 Crossover unit, I believe that the 30 is most suggested for the Servo-15.
Ken Bruce (forum name is brucek) seems to be the man to ask about Bass Management specifically with the BFD. Since he has stated above that the X30 'should' be purchased with the Servo-15, then he must have experience with the unit.
I have to suggest you try and listen to one and form your own opinions of the sub.
As far as resonance goes, that is a room issue. With my room I have a horrible room peak at 37Hz and another lesser one at 75Hz. This is with the Klipsch sub I currently have. With the Servo-15 in the same room, the peaks should be very near the same due to the room itself. Only Bass Traps and EQ (a la BFD) will help in that situation.
There is an interesting discussion re the BFD going on here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=117143

 

[brucek]

Miguel Stanic says:

What about this X30 stuff? How much does the price get driven up with that? Is this only convenience so that you can adjust the sub's settings without having to go to the back of the sub or is there some real value in this stuff.

Well, I feel if you have a Servo-15 driven directly from your processor and you're pleased with the sound, then there's no need to change that situation.
My contention is that the X-30 is included in the price of a Servo-15, but dealers allow you to not accept the device for a small savings. I feel declining the X-30 saves you very little, giving it's many uses, price, and build quality.
The controls that the X-30 provides are normally resident on the rear plate of most subwoofers. Paradigm, decided to remote these controls, add a few more features, and provide a convenient method of controlling your sub(s) directly at your equipment.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but reaching around behind my sub to make adjustments is a pain. I really appreciate the front panel volume control.
Since the Servo-15 alone doesn't provide a phase control, without an X-30 you are out of luck. In that regard, for the people who drive a Servo-15 directly from their processors, how do they adjust phase? Are you sure that if you added 30 degrees of phase to your sub signal that it wouldn't sound better. You'll never know.
What if I added a second sub and I couldn't place it exactly where the optimum placement demanded because of furniture concerns. No problem. With an X-30 I can adjust the phase of a second sub and leave the first sub on fixed phase output to obtain the least amount of cancellation and negative interaction between them. That's hard to do without the X-30.
What if I had a Servo-15 with the X-30 and I added an SVS sub to my system using a Samson pro amplifier. No problem. The X-30 has a second sub line output on it that I can feed to the Samson amp. Now, since that Samson amp needs a bit more voltage fed to it (requiring some people to purchase the extra Marchand SVS line amp at $199), there's no problem. I simply turn up the gain on the X-30 until the Samson is satisfied and then subsequently lower the Servo-15's rear mounted attenuator until they're balanced. That would be kinda hard to do if I didn't have an X-30.
What if I added an equalizer (a.k.a. BFD) and now had to use the processors level control to match the required input level to the ADC's of the BFD, but now needed more gain after the BFD to feed my sub. No problem, just adjust the gain on the X-30 and leave the processor LFE gain fixed.
What if I purchased or owned a processor that had left and right sub outputs and wanted to feed my Servo-15 that only has a single line input. No problem, the X-30 has an internal combiner that will accept both stereo and LFE inputs.
What if I have a processor that has a true analog bypass, but also supplies a subwoofer output that is full range (i.e Bryston SP 1.7). No problem. If I am using the X-30, I dial down the variable low pass filter to the crossover frequency that I like for my sub and I'm good to go.
All this and a nice 23 foot subwoofer cable for about the price of five pizzas. I don't think we should even be talking about it.
brucek

 

[Martin Rendall]

brucek,
So basically you are saying that the X-30 is useless?
Martin.
P.S. I'm saving your message for future reference. Wonderful!

 

[Martin Rendall]

brucek,

Actually, a followup question. Have you any experience with the Merchand XM9L-KK? Is this as flexable as you obviously think the X-30 is?

Thanks,
Martin.

 

[Miguel Stanic]

I picked up the Servo-15 today. I was impressed with the sound of it in the demo. No X30 though as I hope I don't need it with my Anthem.

With my Anthem, where should I set the volume control on the back of the Servo. Is this personal preference. The volume know, on the Servo-15, is at about the 10 o'clock position currently. I've calibrated it to between 76 and 78 db's from the main listening position. I am going to experiment now.

Paradigm is going to introduce a new 18" sub to go along with their very high end Signature/Director series. I keep hearing these names for their high end stuff but I believe Director is already taken so it's probably going to be Signature. Either is pretty kewl. The new sub is expected to retail around 4 to 5K. I'm not sure if it will replace the Servo-15 or not.

The model on the back of my sub reads Servo-15a. Is this a model that has been modified since it was first released. Just asking...anyone know.

The SVS and HSU subs were too pricey with the conversion, shipping, etc. Plus, I needed to get rid of my B&W ASW2000 sub so I traded it in for good value.

 

[brucek]

Martin,

I have no experience with the XM9L, but its price and overall intent is a bit different than the X-30 (which is simply a subwoofer controller, although it does have some limited high pass capability).

The XM9 is a fairly sophisticated 4th order crossover generally used between a processor and power amps to allow bi or tri amplification of your mains speakers, although it does have a subwoofer summing capability and the crossovers can be set for driving a subwoofer. It is very flexible and has extremely good specifications. I believe it costs at least four times the X-30.

brucek

 

[PaulT]

Miguel,
How much did you get the 15 for? How much of a price drop without the X30? Let me know how it runs for you in your room once you tweak it. The others here with the 15's should be able to help you with starting settings.

 

[DavidY]

Paul,

Isn't there another Paradigm dealer in Kelowna....Best Buy Electronics (not to be confused with the Best Buy chain in the US and in Ontario)? If I recall correctly, they were located on Hwy 97, not too far away from Orchard Park mall. I was in the store several years ago....pretty decent stuff there including Paradigm Reference.

Dave