SVS CS Ultra ? Ho do they compare to other subs?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tom Vandogreen, Jul 24, 2001.

  1. Tom Vandogreen

    Tom Vandogreen Auditioning

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    I just sold my old DIY Shiva subwoofers to my friend and i'm now looking for a high output sub so SVS Ultra came to mind.
    My question is how do SVS CS Ultras compare to other subs ?
    I have my thoughts set on the CS-Ultra package with ART 351 equalizer for $2765.
     
  2. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

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    Tom,
    Since your a master at DIY why dont you buy two mass2012 S24 woofers from audiomobile & buy the samson s1000 pro amp from svsubwoofers.com and you will have two verry good sounding subs & it may get close to the svs from what iv'e heard.
     
  3. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Tom,
    DIY is always an option as Tyler points out. You certainly could come reasonably close to a CS-Ultra rig, with a good bit of effort. Given the level of refinement in everything from custom laminted and CNC'd birch endcaps and Tom's expert tuning though it wouldn't be easy to match the SVS's overall value. Having built a good number of DIY subs myself I shudder to think of the time I'd need to closely clone today's CS-Ultras. You could start with trying to find the super density (and majorly thick) tubing we use now and go from there (hint, Sonotube it's not).
    In regards to other commercial offerings, given the price point, you are certainly talking about multiple high cost subs to even come close (say Velo's excellent HGS 18"rs for instance). I doubt you could touch the overall performance for 2-3 times the price spent that way.
    I'm sure Tom could come up with some extrapolations based on objective measurements he's done that would frame the performance in terms of what's at or near the $2,600 price point. He may be by later to do just that.
    Fairly soon we'll be posting some charts that compare objective performance data compiled from Tom Nousaine's testing recently. I think the fact we are still trouncing the competition with our mid-priced CS/PC line, and that the CS-Ultras perform significantly better yet, means we're keeping our promise to offer roughly twice the performance of the big sub houses out there at any price we are represented.
    Ron
     
  4. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    If you want to go DIY---there's certainly a good chance you'll get a great performing woof for less expense than buying a pre-built,warrantied subwoofer from a commercial manufacturer...that's just the nature of the beast.
    Building a solid DIY is pretty easy...and there's a lot of help available on this forum.(esp. in the *advanced* section). The CS_U is the result of a many hundred hours of work and many variations(including driver tweaks,enclosure tweaks,and some pretty interesting other stuff). Going from the earlier versions I built(which I would think would be close to a solid DIY attempt) to the final version I extended and flattened the response,and increased clean output capability >50% in much of the operating bandwidth.
    So I guess I'm trying to say...a casual DIYer could surely build a very good performing subwoofer using any one of the good drivers available out there. But unless you're prepared to build/rebuild/modify and somehow accurately test/measure each version you come up with...you probably won't be squeezing every last ounce of performance from the components. I was also able to make design tweaks to various components that no DIYer will have the ability to do. Then again...if you could DIY something that will give you 80% of the performance for %50 of the cost...it should be considered.
    Getting back to the original question,
    If someone is wondering how the CS_U package(dual passive cylinders+S1000+art351) will stack up to other woofs(objectively)...I'd just look at how our standard 20-39cs/S700 package did when it was measured by Tom Nousaine. Since I've measured both the 20-39cs and CS_U extensively...I could offer some insight on how the CS_U might figure into the mix.
    Our dual 20-39cs/S700 package come in at(in the huge 7500 cu-ft room)
    20hz/97dB
    25hz/111.8dB
    31hz/120.9dB
    25-63hz(avg)/115.5dB
    Judging by my measurements...I'd expect the CS_U package to be about 2-3dB more powerful from 32hz and up...and about 4-6dB more powerful
     
  5. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

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    Tom & Ron are right.
    I think there new driver is better then the mass 12 and if you went the DIY way you would have to build a pretty big enclosure which would probably be bigger then the SVS CS Ultra sub.
    If i had a choice between a SVS CS Ultra & a mass 12 incher i would for sure %100 go with the SVS like Ron said SVS-Tom know A LOT about this stuff & boy did you check out those SPL God ohh mighty those are some big numbers.
    If i had the money i would buy a SVS CS Ultra but i dont thats why i will be building a Shiva based sub.
    So Tom Vondogreen i think it's best to go with the SVS read the SVS CS Ultra PC in the house thred that should give you a good idea what they sound like.
    GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS
    GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS GO FOR SVS
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    SVS ALL-THE-WAY
     
  6. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Tyler,
    IMHO, you can't claim driver X is better than driver Y unless there is an objective test of the performance of the drivers in the same enclosure.
    In this case, we have no evidence of the MASS faired, just the TV12 driver.
    .. I would still be interested in seeing the T/S specs (Private perhaps?) [​IMG]
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  7. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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  8. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

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    MEMBER SUSPENDED.
    DON'T POST STUFF LIKE THIS.
    [Edited last by Mike Voigt on July 24, 2001 at 06:48 PM]
     
  9. ShaneH

    ShaneH Stunt Coordinator

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    WOW !! Tyler you feeling okay? Put down the weights and listen to some soothing music for a little while.
     
  10. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Tyler,
    You can't make final conclusion about the MASS driver.
    Chill out a lil bit.
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  11. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    I just unpacked my new SVS Ultra. I have previously owned M&K, Def Tech, Sunfire and a pair of SVS 20-39cs subwoofers. The pair of SVS subs outgunned the others at almost half the money. Although the 20-39cs's rocked the house(and foundation) I ended up selling the pair due to SAF reasons. I knew I needed a single subwoofer with the performance of the pair of side-by-side 20-39cs's to be happy. I too considered trying to build an Ultra clone but finally just decided to go with the $1100 Ultra since I already knew that the performance, and the sub was supposedly exactly what I wanted... I hope. I also thought that the expertise in building and tweaking the subwoofer, along with the warranty, was worth the additional $400 or so bucks that the SVS Ultra would cost me versus a nice DIY. I'll post my impressions of the Ultra after I set it up, calibrate it and then enjoy it... hopefully by the weekend!
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    Take Care,
    merc
     
  12. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Tyler,
    What Jack is saying (and even TV has said) is that with a DIY sub you can exceed just about any commercially available sub. Granted the TV12 is better in the CS Ultra enclosure, but really only because TV had it built to his specs and then optimized the enclosure to the driver. With the MASS driver the specs are fixed, but if you're willing to put in the time you can optimize an enclosure for it as well. This doesn't make one driver better than another. All that we can say with a reasonable amount of certainty is that the TV12 is the better driver for the CS Ultra enclosure. Unfortunately without testing both there's really no way to truly know.
    Also, lowering yourself to name calling is not only immature and disrespectful, but I believe it's also against the forum rules. Don't give the admins. a reason to boot you. If you can't play nice you'll be kicked out of the sandbox.
    Brian
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