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Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

joshEH

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Just finished the book. A real page-turner. And a freaking-huge spoiler/twist alert for the TV series:

I thought Lorca was great. As someone who thought Mirror Lorca was a bit underserved by how broadly-evil he was revealed to be in last week's episode, I liked that Prime Lorca was consistent with what we thought we knew about him. (Interesting touch that Lorca's fortune cookies actually had fortunes in them, something his counterpart apparently dispensed with. Either that, or Lorca started eating empty ones out of sentiment after everything that happened in the book). Georgiou was also well-served and consistent with what we know of her, especially underscoring her indefatigable optimism even in the face of enormous tragedy.

Speaking of, the actual Tarsus IV massacre was well done, as was the fallout. I've mentioned this before, but a lot of TOS episodes, especially, take place in the wake of horrific catastrophe, and when you look at the big picture, the Enterprise crew doesn't really save the day so much as mitigate the situation or, at best, prevent further destruction. Drastic Measures is one of those books that brings out the scale of stuff the show treated as backstory or stakes, which is exactly the sort of thing that cross-media storytelling is perfect for.

I thought the cameo by shitty teenage Jimmy Kirk was perfect, especially him turning on the charm with Georgiou. Though, come to think of it, it feels like there's a bit of a loose thread with Winona mentioning George is on a "secret" mission, after establishing that a Constitution-class starship's movements were being kept secret a few times earlier in the book, and then not actually bringing up that George was on the Enterprise at the end. I can see how it'd be superfluous to the Tarsus IV story, but my deleted-scene spidey-sense is tingling.

It's left ambiguous exactly how broken Lorca is at the end of the book. His anger is definitely close to the surface, similar to the way Mirror Lorca explained his behavior as trauma from the death of the Buran-crew, and Georgiou thinks, a little before DSC takes place, about how she doesn't know what became of him (beyond, apparently, that he made Captain). Of course, he does keep the one fortune-slip he chose as his guiding star the night of the massacre, so I guess that right there tells you everything you need to know about the difference about the Mirror Universe and our own.

So, let's get to the big twist, the thing that history will either regard as a weird blind-alley or an early sign that Star Trek isn't afraid of its own books anymore:

There's what can only be described as a "post-credits scene" (I'm trying to remember if there's ever been one in a Trek novel before, and I have a vague feeling there has been, if only as a disguised excerpt from the next book in a miniseries) where we get the bombshell revelation (though, technically, only heavily-implied and still deniable or easily retconnable) that Prime Lorca survived the destruction of the ISS Buran (assuming he transposed with his counterpart, à la "Mirror, Mirror"), and is being imprisoned but specifically kept alive by some mysterious party, likely a faction of Terrans.

I can only hope this is a specific tease for next season, and not just a breadcrumb thrown out as a potential plotline that may or may not be followed up on later by the TV show itself. But, if the former, this is pretty freaking huge.
 
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Josh Dial

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Odds on Burnham having to mutiny again against "Captain" Georgiou when she's on the brink of enacting some sort of doomsday plan (early Genesis device launched inside Qo'noS?)? This time, though, she'll have the backing of all those with whom she has made friends.
 

Nelson Au

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Another cracking episode. I knew that Geogiou was going to have some kind of plan to elevate her position. But I didn’t see this one coming. Interesting theory Josh Dial, but I’m also wondering if she survives the finale. We’ll see. As Matt Mira put it in After Trek, this finale looks bananas!

I wonder if the finale will be over 50 minutes long because it looks like a lot of stuff is going to happen.
 

Sam Favate

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I liked last night's episode. Unlike so many episodes that built the story in the early part of the season, I felt like things actually happened in this one.

I also realized that my enjoyment of an episode is directly proportional to the absence of Discovery-type Klingons.
 

Joseph Bolus

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Was late viewing this ep due to the Super Bowl.

This was the expected “exposition-heavy” penultimate show setup for the Season Finale’. As such, it was fairly well executed.

General Observations: I like the actress playing Admiral Cornwell and thought she did a great job with her reaction to the Space Station 1 reveal. There were some really great scenes between Burnham and Sarek as well. Saru is acting more and more like the *real* Captain of Discovery.

Speaking of which — I believe Nelson stated here after last week’s show that Cornwell would never make MU Georgiou captain: Well “Desperate times call for Desparate Measures”!
 

Nelson Au

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[QUOTE="Joseph Bolus, post: 4575286, member: 269177"Speaking of which — I believe Nelson stated here after last week’s show that Cornwell would never make MU Georgiou captain: Well “Desperate times call for Desparate Measures”![/QUOTE]

Yes, I forgot I said that! Totally didn’t see that one coming. I still feel like Matt Mira had the perfect description for this and the upcoming finale episode, it was bananas! They’ve gone nuts with what they are doing with the story. Yet it feels so fun and could be right and I want to see how it works out.

Still potential canon issues with the Klingons, but we’ll see how the war goes. And same with the Spore Drive, does the technology get buried.
 

Josh Dial

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I was shocked at Sarek's use of the mind meld without consent. However, I like seeing characters we know pushed to their limits. It's one thing to see the lengths to which a relatively new character like Lorca will go to achieve theirs ends, but it's far more interesting (to me, at least) to see what happens to someone like Sarek.

The Federation is really backed into a corner, and this is where we find out how far the characters and institutions can be pushed and what happens at their breaking points.

Assuming we aren't going to see a time travel fueled ending to the Federation-Klingon War, there's a chance we see how the Federation really begins. Dare I say, how the Federation discovers itself. Most of the cast has questioned why they joined Starfleet and questioned the nature of Starfleet and the Federation. We've even seen outsiders like Voq, T'Kuvma, and most recently L'Rell level (arguably) valid criticisms about the Federation's "melting pot."

In previous shows, the "darker" side of Starfleet and the Federation was usually demonstrated by minor characters or one-offs. Obviously later seasons of DS9 are the exception, but generally we had characters like Admiral Quinn and Remmick (alien parasites, so not really), Captain Maxwell, Admiral Satie, and Admiral Nechayev (I always thought she was secretly jingoistic) doing the dirty work so that "our team" could remain clean.

If my guess is right, and Burnham goes against Admiral Cornwell's orders--especially if Burnham brings the rest of the crew around--it will be genuinely believable.
 

Carabimero

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Last week may have been the most entertaining episode of the season, but IMHO this week's episode was the best written. I found nothing implausible. The dialogue was extremely well struck, even in the Ash/Michael scene. The writers have effectively healed the fracture in their story with superb creativity. It may have come too late for worthwhile prestige, but his hour was wholly Star Trek and, if it's a hint of what's to come in season two, I can't wait.

It's a shame CBS can't do what Netflix takes for granted: releasing an entire season for streaming at once. I suspect if they had been able to release all fifteen episodes back in September, this show would have more fans. It was designed to be binged, yet its measured release, at least for me, was detrimental to that effect. When the final episode of season one is released next week, I would love to know what a hardcore ST fan who buys a month of CBS Partial Access and binges this season in a day or two thinks about it. I would hope--I would even expect--their reaction to be favorable.

At this point--finally--mine certainly is.
 
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Greg.K

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I didn't really get Admiral Cornwell announcing to the crew that she'd recovered Georgiou. The entire Discovery crew already knows that there is an alternative universe Georgiou, so even if they didn't know that she came back with them I would think more than a few would figure it out.
 

Lou Sytsma

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Who was the Admiral speaking to at the end there? Was that meant for the crew or the official logs? Did she really expect anyone to buy that rescue mission nonsense about Georgiou? The Discovery just got back from the mirror universe!!
An OK transitional/positioning episode.

Edit - Ha! I see Greg has the same question.
 

joshEH

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Josh Dial

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I didn't really get Admiral Cornwell announcing to the crew that she'd recovered Georgiou. The entire Discovery crew already knows that there is an alternative universe Georgiou, so even if they didn't know that she came back with them I would think more than a few would figure it out.

The USS Discovery crew at large only knows there is a "faceless Emperor," as they weren't present for the big reveal of Emperor Georgiou--that was the crew of the ISS Shenzhou. In fact, Saru didn't even know of Georgiou's existence, as seen by his surprise and exclaim of "Captain" when he first sees her at the start of episode 14. She was then immediately beamed to quarters (man, they really like the site-to-site transport on this show). It appears that outside of the inner circle (Burnham, Saru, Starfleet Command, Sarek), only the transporter officer knows the truth.

On a different topic, after a rewatch tonight, I noticed that the Ash Tyler/Burnham scene appears to take place in the space walk prep room/airlock. This looks to be the same room from which Burnham launched to explore the Ship of the Dead back in the pilot. You can see the lift (to the ship's exterior) in the background, as well as part of a space suit on the wall. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the setting is meant to imply to that Ash Tyler was considering suicide. The technical execution of this scene (lightning, camera, sound) was fantastic.
 

Hanson

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Not only Saru, but Detmer (who also served on the Shen Zhou) starts smiling when Georgiou is introduced. It's been 9 months in Prime time, so it's not inconceivable that they actually rescued her.

Between the fact that there was Discovery wreckage but no actual crew contact and Cornwell's conclusion that Lorca is dead based soley on the assessment that no officer could have survived the Terran Empire alone, I'm still holding out for Prime Lorca and Captain Killy being revealed in the finale. Maybe even... Mirror Burnham? BTW, this switching spots is problematic -- like, it's an alternate universe that's radically different yet populated with many of the exact same beings. Yet, for instance, Tyler didn't switch with Mirror Voq, and live people aren't switching with corpses. If it's a simultaneous thing with Lorca and Mirror Lorca transporting at the same time, then why did the Discoveries swap when the ISS Disco doesn't have a spore drive? The swapping out stuff kind of makes no sense.

Speaking of swapping out, how many sleeper Klingons made it to screen so far?
 
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ChristopherG

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Apologies for asking what I'm sure has been discussed or noted, but I just watched the first episode yesterday and am not sure I want to read through all 82 pages of this thread. Do all of the scenes involving the klingons not use subtitles? I found that extraordinarily annoying...
 

Josh Steinberg

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I'm behind on this show due to a combination of illness and waiting for a replacement projector screen to arrive, but I just noticed that Bryan Fuller has just been fired from another show, the reboot of Amazing Stories. So, that's Star Trek Discovery, American Gods, and Amazing Stories, all in the course of about a year.
 

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