Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (5 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

Agreed, the Patrick Stewart announcement was met with great enthusiasm.

To be honest and this is for the Picard series thread, but I’m not feeling anything for the new shows, Georgiou or Picard or the animated. Not till I start seeing footage or stills. I want to like them and hope they succeed. But as of now, I’m not getting excited yet.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'm not in "oh my god, I can't wait" mode just yet. But I am heartened by the thought that there will be more Star Trek on TV in the coming years and not less. It's more of a general feeling of optimism and happiness I'm having.

 

[Nelson Au]

It is a very interesting time now for Star Trek! The TV future does look promising. That’s great and I’m optimistic as well. But I want to be cautious too.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Sorry for my late check-in today -- busy day at the office, crappy evening last night. I'm not feeling the excitement for Trek yet but I think that's just the impact of my week, and I'm sure once I get home and get settled in, the enthusiasm will return.

It's been such a crazy week that I never found the time to come back and write up my thoughts on "If Memory Serves." So I'll just try to offer a briefer version of what's been on my mind all week.

"The Cage" - it's elemental. It's not just in the DNA of Star Trek, it's the seed that sprouted everything. I was first introduced to Star Trek when I was about eight years old; my dad took me to see Star Trek VI with him. I was immediately captivated by what I was seeing. I didn't know anything about the history of Star Trek, but I found everything I saw onscreen to be plausible and relate-able, and I could sense the deep history the characters shared. I was naturally interested to discover more. Now, my dad's taste in Trek is slightly different than mine. His favorite episodes and films are ones involving time travel to a contemporary period (understandable with him growing up in the 60s, having Kirk and Co visit in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" must've been thrilling to see when he was a kid) and ones that were action packed, but with a little bit of intelligence. Early on, he rented episodes like Tomorrow Is Yesterday, Balance Of Terror, and Space Seed to show me. But my dad, to his credit, knew that Trek was more than his personal favorite episodes, and would give little me the chance to rent episodes and movies to watch on my own. That's how I saw "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" (I remember him saying it was boring and he didn't want to see it again, but I was welcome to give it a try). I don't specifically remember him saying anything about "The Cage," but I do have a distinct memory of it being one of the episodes I saw by myself, early on a Saturday or Sunday morning on a rented VHS while my parents were still sleeping. The first episode I remember seeing was "Balance of Terror," and I'm thinking that maybe Dad rented that for me to watch with him on a Saturday night, and that perhaps I watched "The Cage" alone on Sunday morning. It was certainly one of the very first I saw, and it was that VHS edition with the Roddenberry intro and the B&W/color hybrid -- which actually was really freaking cool to me at the time. The black and white made it seem more real to me as a kid, almost like a documentary.

All of that is to say, "The Cage" has been part of my fandom since the beginning, and it's an episode I can return to over and over - it stands alone beautifully as its own story, in addition to laying the groundwork for the Star Trek universe.

It makes sense that if we're invoking Captain Pike, we have to go back to Talos IV.

I had no preconceived notions of what I'd want that visit to be like, but what we got in the episode was absolutely perfect to me.

I'm grateful.

I was greatly moved by so many moments, big and small. Vina and Pike, reunited, briefly. Spock and Pike, together again. Spock and Burnham and their shared memories. Even the moments that were part of the regular Discovery story felt extra special. Saru letting Culber and Tyler fight, because.. well, it was inevitable and it probably had to happen; I agree with Pike that they can't let it go on, but I understand where Saru was coming from in letting it play out. The Talosians fooling Section 31. Just that the sound of the fake beam-out was the sound effect from The Cage.

I could go on for hours. It was a remarkable episode.

I know that's most likely the high point for the season. But I'm still excited to see what comes next.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for your thoughts on If Memory Serves. I was wondering why you were so silent. It’s interesting for us slightly older fans who came to The Cage after the fact of seeing The Menagerie first. So for me it was a revelation. If Memory Serves was definitely a highlight. It might very well be of the season.

Just watched Project Daedalus. So off the cuff reaction without thought: Definitely feels like we’re on the home stretch now. Like after the break last season and the Mirror Universe unleashed all this new flood of action and learnings. I liked the clandestine nature of the episode and how it started. It had me wondering if that Discovery was the long abandoned Discovery we saw in the Short Trek episode. So the Admirals at Section 31 we’re all killed. And by V’Ger. I’ll have to watch it again to be sure, it was the AI who frames Spock and not Section 31.

The new emotional Spock and Bernham have some work to do still. And the Red Angel’s identity, that was good work on Stamets part to try to help Spock figure it out. There was a clue there. And I’m churning on a couple of theories.

Airiam’s demise was a surprise. It looked like the old “play the good memories trick was going to work and worth a try” but Gorgan the Friendly Angel was too strong and wasn’t going to let her go. I was wondering where Nhan was, if she was really out. That was quite a way to end the episode. Now we will have to learn what Daedalus is.

 

[Carabimero]

This is the first evening ever that my wife and I watched back-to-back shows on CBS-Partial Access. So they slowly building up their viewership. I admire them trying to grow and thrive in the same sandbox as Netflix and the juggernaut of Disney

As far as Star Trek, tonight's episode was full of action but suffered from my pet peeve of dramatic response time vs. real-time response. That is, characters could repeatedly prevent trouble in this episode if they didn't do that dramatic hesitation thing that makes me want to pull my hair out. I don't know why I picked this episode to criticize; it's fairly common not just on DSC but in TV drama. Tonight it just seemed to happen a lot in this single episode.

Also, why did the mine attack on Discovery suddenly cease? Was there a causal plot connection I missed? Why try to destroy the ship and then stop the attack when you're about to cut the ship's throat, so to speak?

That said, some great dialogue between Spock and Burnham, and Spock and Stamets. I thought Spock's line to Stamets about Hugh's motivation was so perfect. The dialogue is infinitely better this season. Love seeing these characters actually grow in believable ways.

 

[Sam Favate]

Another good episode. I was glad Jonathan Frakes toned down the lens flares, which now, unfortunately, seem part of the Trek look. The best thing they could do for the show is stop with those.

I feel like Star Trek for too many years now has made the Vulcans sound angry. Spock and Sarek never sounded angry in the original series. They were cold, but logical. The Vulcans on Enterprise often sounded angry, including T'Pol. When Voyager featured a Vulcan, there was also anger. As there is with Discovery. I guess there's more going on with Spock, so maybe it's justified, but it feels wrong.

Nice to see a Barzan (sp?), a species not seen since TNG's The Price.

Great stuff again from Captain Pike. I liked the admiral's declaration that keeping the Enterprise out of the war was to preserve the best of Starfleet, i.e. Pike.

 

[Jason_V]

Another good episode. I was glad Jonathan Frakes toned down the lens flares, which now, unfortunately, seem part of the Trek look. The best thing they could do for the show is stop with those.

Agree. And let's add the really weird, upside down camera moves to that list. There's one in almost every episode for no good reason I can find.

I feel like Star Trek for too many years now has made the Vulcans sound angry. Spock and Sarek never sounded angry in the original series. They were cold, but logical. The Vulcans on Enterprise often sounded angry, including T'Pol. When Voyager featured a Vulcan, there was also anger. As there is with Discovery. I guess there's more going on with Spock, so maybe it's justified, but it feels wrong.

I'm okay with this version of Spock being "angry." This is an early Spock, closer to the one we see in The Cage than anything else. And that version was highly emotional. Plus, he's half human when everyone else in TOS, VOY and ENT was a full Vulcan.

Damn, another compelling, solid episode. The more we see of Mount as Pike, the more I am all in on him. The bridge scene between him and Jayne Brook (Cornwell) was...I don't even know the word. Electric? Mesmerizing? As much as I love Jeffrey Hunter in the role (always have), Mount is making Pike his own. The "just right" mix of humor, leadership and plain old authority. I know the writing is a huge part of this, as is the directing, so massive props to everyone.

As good as this season is, what it has done is really showcase the issues with the first season. The big dramatic moment of this episode-the final scenes with Airiam-would have had a much bigger impact has Season 1 done any of the character work to make the secondary characters even halfway important. This reminds me of "Skin of Evil" in a lot of ways. And that frustrates me: we spent a season in this universe and learned almost nothing of value about anyone except for Burnham, Tilly and maybe Saru. Those episodes were wasted or, maybe more accurately, were a prologue to this season. That prologue should have been an episode, maybe two.

But damn if this creative group isn't turning this ship around as hard as they can as quickly as they can. Aside from "Point of Light," this has been a stellar season.

Also, why did the mine attack on Discovery suddenly cease? Was there a causal plot connection I missed? Why try to destroy the ship and then stop the attack when you're about to cut the ship's throat, so to speak?

I think it had to do with Airiam. She has the information from the sphere and Control needed her, so destroying Discovery wouldn't have served any purpose. At least that was how I interpreted what happened. Why try, though? To put on a good show, so to speak? If the mines didn't attack, the crew would have known something was wrong immediately. The attack was halfhearted. Someone said the blade mines would slice through the ship like cheese. It felt like the mines were pulling their punches, based on the visuals. Cutting through the ship like cheese should mean the hull is sliced and diced in a thousand ways immediately. It wasn't.

 

[Sam Favate]

I have a suspicion that this season will lead to Section 31 going underground, all but becoming its own entity, unaffiliated with Starfleet. At the very least, I think that will happen by the time the Section 31 show begins.

 

[Greg.K]

Today I learned that Paul Stamets is named after a real life mycologist.

 

[Nelson Au]

I agree, Airiam was communicating with the AI in Control. I thought the mines had to attack to put on a good show. Plus they wanted to disable Discovery so she couldn’t get away. Warp drive was down after the attack. Then Airiam was able to get into Section 31 and finish her task.

This episode certainly explained why the admirals at Section 31 were controlling Leland and the other ‘31 ships to get to Spock first to use their mind-ripper on him.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Remember how I was saying a couple weeks ago that I had always wanted the black cover VHS versions of the original series? My Discovery enthusiasm got the better of me after If Memory Serves aired, I found a seller on eBay with a complete set at a very good price, and they got here super quick - more than half are still sealed. I reorganized everything to make a Trek shelf. Yes, I know I’m crazy.

*i have the DVDs for the films with the unique cuts of TMP, TWOK and TUC Frankenstein’d into the Blu-ray cases. And I have S6 of TNG, it’s just next to the TV cause my wife and I are watching it currently.

So, umm...what to follow Discovery with next?

 

[Carabimero]

Where possible, looks like you keep the shrink wrap on yours too.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I wish, that’s just the glare. I’ll open the VHS tapes as I go through them, I think I’ll just start in order and go through it that way. Might wait until the Discovery finale. Or might start later tonight. You never know.

 

[Carabimero]

I have those VHS tapes and I swear I see the watermarks on the cellophane, just like mine because the shrink wrap are still on the ones I own, too.

For example, it appears your VHS copy of SPECTRE OF THE GUN does not have the shrink wrap, but many of the others do.

I used a blade to cut just the shrink wrap away that I need to slide the tape out and leave the rest of it on for protection.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Yeah, about half of them came sealed. I got really lucky on eBay - the price I paid probably covered the shipping and not much else. I think I’ll do what you did and just slice open the bottoms to get the tapes out as necessary. They look otherwise mint. I’m totally thrilled. I know it shouldn’t matter or make a difference after owning the Blu-rays but they’re just too cool!!!!

 

[Carabimero]

I totally get it. Watching those tapes takes me back to watching the show when I was a kid, because they more closely resemble the way the show looked then. For me half the appeal of this hobby is to take me back to a precious time that is long gone because virtually nothing from the shows have changed since then (yet everything else in the world has)--and the VHS tapes do that so nicely, except for CITY ON THE EDGE, which is crap on the VHS, IMO, because of the changed music cues.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I don’t actually ever think I’ve seen City on VHS. I saw it on broadcast syndication and then DVD. What’s different about the music? That’ll be fun to listen for if nothing else.

 

[Carabimero]

They changed the running theme for Kirk and Edith, which is okay I guess until the reaction shot of Kirk after Edith gets hit, and that doesn't work for me at all. As Bones might say, "My God man, you need to see that (or perhaps hear it) asap!"

I was told not all VHS tapes had the change, but I bought it three times hoping to get an unchanged tape and never did. It should say, "Some music has been changed for this home presentation" or something like that, right on the box.

I was so happy when the single disc releases came out just to get the right music in this. It made me cringe FOR YEARS, every time I heard it.

I asked Harlan about it back in the day and he said he wanted them to set the Kirk/Edith relationship a part, and develop it musically, but it wasn't just because it was different that I didn't like it. It wasn't mixed to sound congruent to the rest of the episode, IMO.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I just pulled the tape and it did have that small print at the bottom about the music. I’ll keep an ear out - it’ll be fun to watch both versions back to back. Thanks for the heads up!

I wonder how many other people have VCRs hooked up to 4K TVs, haha.