Spike Lee: what's everybody's problem? (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Robert, I don't consider that doing a thing to help young black filmmakers who want to get a film made, or just want to break into Hollywood. I'm talking about hands on helping young filmmakers get through the door. Spike Lee making a film doesn't do anything to help get black filmmakers into the process. And I always hear him moaning about no black filmmakers.

Terrell,

Not to be rude, but I think you need to do a little more research on Spike Lee, if you think he hasn't mentor nor personally helped young black filmmakers get into the business.

Lee isn't much different then a lot of independent filmmakers except that he is black and therefore, accepts a more outspoken role as a spokesman for issues involving the Hollywood system and minority participation. Lee speaks his mind but he is far from perfect which means he is wrong in certain situations but at least he takes a point of view which is more than I can say for some others. A filmmaker that makes films about social issues doesn't expect all to agree with his point of view, however, he hopes to inspire thought so that people realize that things are not always the way they seem to be and even though progress has been made, the journey to make the world a better place for all is far from completion.

Crawdaddy

 

[george kaplan]

I don't think I've ever said anything here one way or another about Spike Lee. But since it's come up, I will say that I very much disagree with the accolades thrown on Do the Right Thing. To me, this was not at all enlightening about race, did not have a positive or meaningful message, and didn't make me think about the issues, other than to dismiss it from my thoughts. Frankly, I found the ending to be racist.

I won't say more than that, except to say, that what I consider good movies dealing with race would be ones such as Roots. And while it wasn't anywhere near as good as Roots, I thought Malcolm X was much better than Do the Right Thing.

 

[Terrell]

Robert, I don't think he does as much to solve the problems, as he bitches about. Maybe you're right. Maybe he does mentor. But to get more black filmmakers the opportunity takes more than mentoring. It takes money. I also think there are far more thought provoking films dealing with racial issues, than what Lee has done. George mentioned a couple. I think Lee's done some good work. But in many instances, I feel he perpetuates the stereotypes of blacks in his films, that he blames whites for having. But what do I know. I'm not a Lee fan by any means. I've just seen some of his work, and I found merit in much of that work..

 

[Robert Crawford]

So "Roots" is a better film dealing with race? Hmmmmm, well not to sidetrack this discussion, I will abstain from further comment about that assertion.

Crawdaddy

 

[Jeremiah]

JasonK, I never looked at it like that, now when I watch it again I will be looking through those eyes. Thanks.

 

[Richard Kim]

Frankly, I found the ending to be racist.

I didn't quite find the ending to Do the Right Thing to be racist, but it was problematic to me. I thought the whole riot and destruction was a cautionary tale about the worsening of race relations and a call to do something about it, but the ending with Martin Luther King's and then Malcom X's quotes seemed to advocate the riot.

 

[Larry Seno Jr.]

I've yet to see his films discussed, but the reason he doesn't get credibility is because he isn't that talented. Spike Lee, if white, wouldn't be making films anymore. It could be his choice for choosing bad screenwriters (I don't know how many of his films he has or hasn't written, and they were so bad I didn't care) but he just isn't that talented. He doesn't weave a story well, and his pacing is terrible. Most often his films don't have well portrayed protagonists, and the pacing like I said, is just BAD. He could have done SO much more with Malcolm X, in fact he believes he is the ONLY person who should have directed that movie, and he basically ruined the story. Get on the Bus, Do the Right Thing, Summer of Sam, Jungle Fever. These movies are all BAD movies, and would have been enough to get an up and coming white director kicked out of the club. If Brett Ratnor (Direcor of Money Talks, and Rush Hour 1&2) I think is a VERY talented director, and had he mad ANY of those movies, instead of incredibly successful ones, we wouldn't know his name.

 

[george kaplan]

So "Roots" is a better film dealing with race? Hmmmmm, well not to sidetrack this discussion, I will abstain from further comment about that assertion.

Please don't. I fail to see how that would be sidetracking. As a matter of fact, it seems to me to go to the heart of the matter.

My son is only 20 months old. When he's old enough, I will watch Roots with him and we will discuss slavery, and racism, etc. I certainly won't sit down with him and watch Do the Right Thing. What would I say to him after that? Don't go into poor urban neighborhoods cause there's still a lot of anger directed at different racial groups? Not that it matters, but my son is half-white/half-asian, and I want to discuss race relations with him. But please, tell me what the 'point' of Do the Right Thing is. I really want to know why it's a better movie about race to you.

 

[Terrell]

Speaking of Lee, I just saw him on TV talking about the gatekeepers. I'd just be happy if he quit using all of the ridiculous words.

 

[Rob T]

I think he's a real prick as a person. It also seems like he doesn't like white people a whole lot.

I haven't seen enough of his movies to talk about them, though. I've only seen a bit of Summer of Sam.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Larry,

In regard to your comments the only thing I can say for them is welcome to the forum.

George,

It's simply my opinion that "Roots" doesn't address a lot of issues regarding race and race relations in today's comtemporary times.

Terrell,

I don't understand your comment about the word "gatekeeper" because you took it out of context, therefore I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

Rob,

Then you need to see more of his films before passing judgement.

Crawdaddy

 

[Kirk Tsai]

A few points since perceptions about black actors, Lee's movies, or race relations are probably not going to be solved in this thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do we really think Lee believes the past was better?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure about that statement Kirk. I said that at least more black actors are getting prominent roles, and that from that standpoint, it's far better now than it used to be.

Terrell, I'm not really sure if it was I who had terrible wording or you misunderstood me. Let me be clear: are we really to believe that his compliants about black actors status today as saying "yesterday was better?" I would say, of course NOT. Of course black actors have more roles, and even leading roles, but the logic I was trying to point out is that Lee's compliants is not denying progress our society/Hollywood has made, but an urge for further progression. If I sound condescending, I apologize, but I think it's obvious to everyone black actors have more chances to succeed today than yesteryear.

Second, say what you will about the stories of his movies, Lee is a very good image maker. He can shoot the realistic and gritty streets, but also give it a hypnotic and/or striking feel. To have realism and expressionism at the same time, Lee is second only to Scorsese among American directors today. Think of the boiling streets in Do the Right Thing, the sense of awe when Malcom X goes to Africa, or the beauty when Mantan puts on his black face in the (seemingly) much hated Bamboozled.

And lastly, the importance of Lee in the filmmaking scene today can't seems to be overrated. Some in this thread have called him an outright poor filmmaker, some say he further enforces black stereotypes, yet, compare his movies to 90% of the other so-called black movies and his are thought provoking and substancial. Call him angry and controversial if you want, but I would much rather watch Lee's reasons for a black character to steal than Ice Cube trying to do anything. Forget about his conclusions, the simple fact that he brings up situations that confront our own beliefs is refreshing.

 

[Terrell]

Robert, I know what he meant by the word. But he's always using these silly little words. Just say studio head, or something to that effect. Personally, I can't stand the guy. Admittedly, that doesn't add anything to the discussion, just my feelings. I think he's a jerk with a crappy attitude.

As for Roots, I believe it does a better job at the hardships and the times early blacks had to deal with. Also, Malcolm X was better than Do The Right Thing. You may be correct when you say contemporary. Heck, I even think A Family Thing with Robert Duval and James Earl Jones, and Cry the Beloved Countryare better films on race that Do the Right Thing. However, that doesn't mean I don't think DTRT(yes, I'm too lazy to type it) is a bad film. I think it is a good film and has merit. But there are much better films about race relations than that film.

but the logic I was trying to point out is that Lee's compliants is not denying progress our society/Hollywood has made, but an urge for further progression.

I just misunderstood you Kirk. However, he sometimes comes across, when asked about progress, that he feels not a lot of progress has been made. That's not true. A tremendous amount of progress has been made in race relations and in Hollywood. We have much further to go, but we've come a long way.

 

[Michael Silla]

MikeM, I have to disagree with the last part of what you said

"He took the interviewers into a laserdisk shop - (was a 60 minutes type interview) and in talking about how he loves movies proceeds to talk about how part of the movie watching/owning experience was in the purchasing the movies themselves and how he had bought many of the movies he owns 10 times or more. Now laserdisk sets certainly weren't cheap, and (in my mind) it's a foolish waste of money to buy a movie you already own nine more times just because you like buying. I've always found it more than a bit two-faced that he could sit there and complain that people weren't doing more when he was "wasting" money that could have been better used to help people.

I've always liked his movies, well most of them. However, since that interview I haven't liked him much at all. "

Why is that?. I don't understand why Spike cannot enjoy the fruits of his labor without being judged unfairly. I absolutely hate how SOME people are hypocritical, regardless of race, about charity - Hollywood is full of such people. That said, I think there is a unfair spotlight on black filmakers or actors who indulge themselves to luxuries afforded by their profession yet somehow are seen as "indifferent" to the plight of their community. In Spike's case, this simply isn't true.

Would it satisfy you if Spike gave half of all his earnings to charity?. Is Seventy five percent better?. At what point does he become a good guy in your book?. I simply don't see how feeding a passion of his (collection of movies, even multiple copies) makes him a bad guy.

Michael.

 

[Robert Crawford]

As for Roots, I believe it does a better job at the hardships and the times early blacks had to deal with.

Terrell,

What does that have to do with "Do the Right Thing" which details one hot summer day of 1989, in Brooklyn, New York. Furthermore, "Roots" doesn't tell half the story about hardships and times that generations of Blacks endured in this country.

Crawdaddy

 

[Terrell]

Nevermind! Take to long to explain what I meant anyway. All I'm saying is there are better race relation films than Do the Right Thing, which doesn't mean it's a bad film. If I wanted to show a young person a good movie about race relations, Do the Right Thing would be a long way down the list.

Basically, they are dealing with two different time periods. Roots is a film about slavery and Alex Haley's lineage to it. So no, they are definitely different time periods. My only point is there are better films.....uh, see argument above.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I keep hearing about better race relation films but I don't see any mention of these films. Also, "Do the Right Thing" main focus by Lee was to show that there are still some deepseeded race problems in America. His choice not to offer some solution in the film might be a fair criticism but in reality there aren't any easy solutions to this problem.

Crawdaddy

 

[Josh_Hill]

I to love Spike Lee and his films. Do the Right Thing is genius!

 

[george kaplan]

Quote:

Well, I mentioned Roots which is better, though not contemporary. As for contemporary, I'm not sure I can come up with better ones, but that doesn't make Do the Right Thing a good one. Please explain why it does a good job of addressing current race relations.
Frankly, I'm more impressed by films or tv shows in which blacks and whites just interact in a normal fashion. While that may not be 'addressing' current racial problems, it is 'helping' to solve them far more IMO, than a film like Do the Right Thing. I am far more impressed by I Spy, Star Trek, The Defiant Ones, In the Heat of the Night etc. I suppose Spike would argue that some of those shows are 'ignoring' or 'simplifying' race relations, but to me, showing racial harmony and equality is not ignoring race, and showing people able to get along is not 'simplifying' race, rather it's making an important statement. One I agree with and understand.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Do the Right Thing is not about solutions, it's about uncovering the depth and complexity behind racial issues. Doesn't the obvious contradiction of the Malcom/King photo and then the final quotes tell us that? He presents both of these views to us and shows us EVERY character being racist at times.
And the film also happens to be one of the most beautiful films to look at ever made. I rank it in the top 3 "New York" films ever made, right there with Manhattan and Taxi Driver. I also think that Lee is much closer to Scorsese in visual style than being some "hack".
I don't think it's a mistake that Clockers feels like such a perfect match between the 2 filmmakers. Definately birds of a filmmaking feather to me. They share a similar taste in music applied to film as well I notice, similar varied choices for similar effects. Watching Cape Fear and Do the Right Thing both within the last week I noticed again how similar these two directors can be at times.
Summer of Sam was also excellent. Malcom X as well. Heck, She's Gotta Have It is on par with Clerks as one of the greatest debut indy flicks for a director.
As for his spouting off about "Summer of Sam was your first white picture" who can blame him. Somehow people overlooked many films of his that were centered with both races. Certainly Do the Right Thing and Jungle Fever concerned both white and black characters (not to mention a variety of others).
For example, John Turturro has appeared in several Lee films including DtRT, Clockers, Jungle Fever, Mo' Better Blues, He Got Game and Girl 6.
How many black actors can be found in Woody Allen films as a comparison?
So maybe he hears a question like that and wonders why Do the Right Thing was a "black" film rather than a film for all races and why white America would see it that way.
Bottom line - a great vision of cinema style, real and honest scripts, takes chances with interesting stories.
And he is not afraid to also call out the black community to step up. I saw an interview with him where he questioned the efforts in the black filmmaking community, wondering where the real visionaries where. His point was to talk about the current "black" film genre choices - rappers in drug comedies, lots of gang and gangster films, not much else.
I think his point is excellent in wondering why more black artists aren't trying to expand to more positive characters or at least less stereotyped.
Also, I don't get the Brett Ratner thing. Spike goes for meaty subjects rather than popcorn fluff and still manages to break even or earn a profit on pretty much every film. So where is the failure??? Just because he often has gone with budgets of $3-4 million and made just a bit more than that back? That's just small filmmaking, not failure.