Spike Lee: what's everybody's problem? (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Quote:

That's a quote taken from one of my earlier posts which states my thoughts on what Lee was trying to accomplish with "Do the Right Thing". Now as far as enlightening you that is something I don't have the time nor inclination to do because either you got the message of the film or you didn't. Let's take the painting of the Mona Lisa, many people view it as a beautiful painting, while there are some that just look at this piece of art as a painting of a plain-looking woman. A film or a piece of art doesn't work for everybody and just because it didn't work for you, doesn't necessarily mean it failed to communicate it's message.
Seth,
Excellent points!
Crawdaddy

 

[george kaplan]

Do the Right Thing is not about solutions, it's about uncovering the depth and complexity behind racial issues.

Perhaps I should just shut up about this. I've read a good deal of racist literature that could be described the same way (both from whites and blacks). If uncovering the depth and complexity of racial issues doesn't lead to solutions, then what's the point? Racism is here, learn to live with it?
Oh, well, I'm clearly in a minority here , so I'll just shut up.

 

[Josh_Hill]

Great post Seth.

 

[Robert Crawford]

George,

I don't know how many times you have seen "Do the Right Thing" from beginning to end but the film deals with race relations as still a problem in today's society despite all the so-called progress that's been made over the last 40 years. The film doesn't offer any solutions but it acknowledges that each individual has to deal with their own demons regarding racism and how they react to people different from themselves. Hell, we can't even have an Oscar race without talk about racism in the discussion about who's going to win the AA for Best Actor or Actress.

And if truly think Roots puts rose-colored glasses on racism and slavery, then I'd suggest you might want to revisit it. Or In the Heat of the Night or the Defiant Ones for that matter. Yes, some of the characters in those movies learn to transcend some of their racism.

Yes, rose-colored glasses because they just touched the iceberg about the effects of slavery and racism had on generations of blacks in America. Those characters in "In the Heat of the Night" and "The Defiant Ones" only transcended their racism up to a certain point.

Now, I'm going to bow out of this discussion because I'm starting to get pissed! If you haven't rezlized it by now, racism as a subject matter is something I take very seriously and it's a very personal matter to me. However, I will continue to monitor this discussion for anybody crossing the line.

Crawdaddy

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I agree with Larry. Not to say he isn't talented, but if he were white, he wouldn't get a budget anymore. Everything's about race, everything about him tends to not be "this film was so good, or his did so and so with this film" but "he's a black director."
I just believe that people should hold their own, regardless of race. Look at Denzel Washington. He's not "a black actor", he's a "great actor period" (or a bad actor period if that's your view) Same thing with Samuel L. Jackson. I really believe that they'd still be in the business had they been white. May not have gotten some roles they got (Shaft for instance), but they'd have been successful. Both have taken on a wide variety of roles, many of them about issues having nothing to do with race.
If Spike Lee gets to a point where he's a "(good/bad) director, period," then I think the ridicule will stop.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well besides the obvious VISUAL skill behind DtRT, and there is tons of that, the script is highly mixed in gray regions rather than black and white solutions.

Who is the hero of the film? Possibly 1 character - Danny Aiello.

Who is the bad guy of the film? Perhaps the closest is Turturro, yet even he is allowed to resonate sympathies with the audience. We are at least shown some of the peer pressure he is put under in terms of racism.

But other characters are allowed to be flawed. I think one mistake is to assume that Lee cast himself as the "hero" despite the script countering that. Instead Lee is the most "identifiable" character, the most human. He is not a bad worker but he is not a good one either, he is a friend to Vito (Richard Edson) yet raises the riot to another level at the end. He is sympathetic to Vito's needs but at the end of the film he seems unsympathetic to Sal.

What the audience does is bring it's own baggage to the film. We feel the need to have Mookie make amends with Sal, but it doesn't happen. However, does the movie tell us that's the right thing? No. The uncomfortable feelings come from how the characters are being portrayed BY LEE. We can wish for a different outcome, but clearly we can see Mookie as flawed because Lee allows us to see him that way.

In the middle of the film we have the string of racial slurs shut down by Jackson's Love Daddy. That is the voice of the film, the neutral sensible voice. The characters are all circling that centrality, off on their own biased ends of the spectrum.

Surely the Koreans are shown in a positive light as even the drunks argue among each other about the "fairness" of them owning the store. And Sal gets a scene telling his son how he is a part of that neighborhood. That Lee includes these scenes again and again tell us that he is not promoting some "white = evil, black = good" philosophy. Clearly he takes time to show us that much of the problems come from the black community as the white community.

Radio Rahim and Buggin Out are shown as instigators, if it was about oppression then Lee would have Rahim listening to his radio in a more reasonable situation, killed not while almost choking Sal to death but as a total innocent. In that way Roots is a much simplier tale of innocent and evil.

Maybe the title should be followed by a question mark "Do the Right Thing?" because the film shows us how difficult it can be to do the right thing.

Another example - when the soak the guy's convertible. Again it is portrayed as mischief on their part, the car owner gets screwed. Maybe we want the satisfaction of those characters getting punished for it, but Lee knows better. He's showing us how it really is, holding a mirror up to all of us including the black audience. He says to everyone "Maybe you are as much a part of the problem as the rest of the world".

On to something more artistic. Mother Sister and The Mayor. On my latest viewing I started to think that they are truly symbolic characters more than literal. This is just speculation of course as I have not listened to the commentary yet.

Anyway, I see Mother Sister as "the neighborhood" as a nuturing mother. This mother gives birth to and raises the children in this neighborhood. The Mayor is law and order of the neighborhood. The neighborhood suffers when law and order fall down on the job, ie The Mayor has become a druken fool laughed at by the population. This is not government law, but the self-governing responsibility of the neighborhood.

Think about how Mother Sister and The Mayor are always swirling around each other, antogonistic yet drawn to each other as well. His "structure" trying to uplift her "neighborhood" yet she also resents him for letting her down.

It comes across more as we go along - first The Mayor saves the boy and Mother Sister sees it, she subtlely acknowledges his efforts to make the neighborhood better (by saving one of it's children). Later it is The Mayor who first intervines for Sal and sons and then pulls them aside to safety. Law and order has tried to interject and has been rejected by the community as it decends into chaos.

And the result of the fire? Well we get Mother Sister of all characters crying. Surely that's no accident either. The neighborhood itself has been attacked and hurt and she represents this to us.

If this symbolism was not intentional it certainly seems to have crept into the film anyway.

I'd also mention the gorgeous effects of summer that I have heard Lee discussing. His intentional use of reds to convey the heat of a city summer day. The striking all red painted brick wall in front of the 3 guys hanging out (ML, Sid, Sweet Dick Willie) is the more obvious, but the beautiful coloring continues throughout.

Oh and by the way, another Mookie flaw that possibly IS resolved...being a good father. We have hints at the end that he will change this bad behavior at least. Maybe that is the only "right thing" that Lee expects us to do, maybe the only thing that we can do.

So I'd say that Do the Right Thing is far from a film created by a 2nd rate artist. There is way too much inventive, creative, and fresh content in the film for anyone less than a true artist to have made it. I think it literally is one of the greatest pieces of American film art. A great film period, but so much more important to American culture and wonderfully representitive. It's the kind of film I would want future cultures to dig up if they wanted to know 20th century America.

 

[Paul D Young]

I have watched all Spike Lee's movies (except Girl 6) and have always found them to be rewarding experiences even if I don't think they are all great. I also seem to be in the minority when I say that Summer Of Sam is one of his best (behind Do The Right Thing of course) and I never really liked Malcolm X! I also love Clockers, Crooklyn, Get On The Bus and He Got Game.
I don't know if he is a wonderful human or a big jerk and I don't really care. I watch and judge the movies as MOVIES, not at how well they handle or solve our country's race relations problems. Just because he would LIKE to solve it does not mean that I put the responsibility on him to get it done. All his personal opinions aside, I think he is a great and talented filmmaker.
P.S. I have never seen Roots

 

[Mike Broadman]

Wowie, did this thread explode!

Seth, you are the man. I also noticed the symolism with Mother Sister, but it was in the back of my mind, sort of beneath the surface.

All I can add to Seth's and Rob Crawford's excellent observations is that I'm from Brooklyn, and have known and lived among people like those portrayed in the movie. The film captures the feeling and mentality of these folks very well, and takes them to the extreme at the end. And, it's really not that extreme: after all, it's not like we haven't had race riots in this country.

Quite frankly, some of the complaints against Spike as a person are petty. "I saw him in this interview..." etc. So what? Why do we demand perfection from public figures? If he's angry or subjective, that's natural. He's an artist, not a scientist. As long as his work is honest and good, that's what counts. Spike adds fairness on top of that: he challenges the black community as much as everyone else.

 

[Terrell]

I keep hearing about better race relation films but I don't see any mention of these films.

Robert, I mentioned Cry the Beloved Country, Roots(albeit a different time period), Malcolm X, even In the Heat of the Night and A Family Affair do a better job at discussing race relations in a thoughtful manner.

I'm not trying to delve your enthusiasm for Do the Right Thing. I think it's a fine film. I just think if you want to see a film on race relations, there are a number of better films. I don't want it to get too heated, so I'll end my discussion here.

 

[Michael Silla]

Excellent post Seth!. You've made me go out and rent the film again, something I think ALL of us should do....
Michael.

 

[Butch C]

[rant]My compliments to the admins for not closing this thread as soon as any serious discussion began...a new breed of admins leading to a more tolerant HTF? Bravo![/rant]

I really dont like Lee's style...I live down the block from where most of the Suumer of Sam 'outside the beach club' scenes were filmed and I think he (or the script, granted) made 'us' look like morons. Plus he uses that rolling platform shot too much in the wrong spots...

As for his treatment of race...like Woody Allen or Billy Joel his work is not so much about the country as a whole but about New York in general...the tensions in DTRT were running just as hot on ANY summer day in the 80's in NY. SGHI had SUCH a NY feel that you had to be raised here to recognize it...I think he's lost that as he tries to get his message out to a wider audience.

Spike...return to the storytelling that got you there and just give the viewers a slice of life...life is more powerful than any fiction.

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

I've only seen 2 and a half movies by Lee so I'm no expert but what I did see gave me enough negative impressions that could care less if I never saw another one. The first was Malcolm X. The second was Summer Of Sam. What I didn't like about them, especially SOS was his portrayal of white people in general, and Italians in particular, as stupid, ignorant, and racist. I tried to watch DTRT but shut it off halfway through as I was seeing more of the same thematic b.s.

Sure he can make a visually excellent movie - good framing, cinematography, etc. I just don't get enthralled by his subject matter. To each our own, I guess. Perhaps he might chat with the Hughes Brothers to see how to make a nice suspense/thriller such as From Hell which was mercifully free from racial issues.

As long as his work is honest and good, that's what counts.

It's good - at least technically - but I question the honesty. Again, this is a subjective item and just because Spike says it's so doesn't mean that it is. I just hope he doesn't jump on the reparations for slavery bandwagon - then I'll really not like him.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Brad, I think you misunderstand what I meant by honesty. Honesty does not equal truth. It is not an artist's role to provide fact. That is what scientists, researchers, and teachers do.

With all the varying viewpoints, I don't think anyone will question Spike's sincerity and honesty.

No, I don't always agree with him- but I don't have to. I know he cares about his subject matter, and that makes him more credible than most hacks in Hollywood. Furthermore, I'm able to seperate my own world-view from my enjoyment of a film. I am getting the feeling that people are using their own politics to judge the films. This is natural, I guess, but a darn shame.

 

[Mark Pfeiffer]

Spike Lee is a very talented filmmaker, in my opinion. He's also a very opinionated one, which is what mostly seems to be rankling people in here. Is he always "right" or on target with his comments? Not in my opinion, but I think at the very least he raises issues that need to be discussed.

Bamboozled doesn't seem to have much support in this thread, but I found it to be a very interesting film. I had previously heard elsewhere the general argument Lee makes in the movie, and I think it's one worth confronting audiences with. Whether one agrees or not, I think he makes some salient points that many might have never considered. (If you only watch a little of it, watch the montage of racist popular culture images at the end of the film right before (or during) the end credits.)

Also, why does whatever film he makes have to be the definitive statement on race relations? And why shouldn't race be the focal point of his films? Obviously it's something that he is very passionate about.

Spike has a tendency to shoot off his mouth in interviews, something he should be aware of by now because it often gets him in trouble publicity-wise. Then again, isn't it possible he's doing it on purpose to stir up discussion or simply to raise awareness of his films? He's a provocateur and sometimes it backfires on him. I do think, though, that he can be held to an unfair standard. He certainly isn't perfect and occasionally indulges in his worst impulses, but he also delivers stimulating films whether they're good or not.

 

[Richard Kim]

Bamboozled doesn't seem to have much support in this thread, but I found it to be a very interesting film. I had previously heard elsewhere the general argument Lee makes in the movie, and I think it's one worth confronting audiences with. Whether one agrees or not, I think he makes some salient points that many might have never considered. (If you only watch a little of it, watch the montage of racist popular culture images at the end of the film right before (or during) the end credits.)

I didn't think Bamboozled was a good film. I thought it was a jumbled mess but I do agree with its message about racial stereotypes in popular culture. After watching Rush Hour 2, with its stereotypical representations of blacks, Asians and whites and its sucess in the box office reminded me of the mulitracial audience laughing at the antics of the blackface characters.

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

Mike, you made some good points and my question of his honesty was regarding his non-varying portrayal of non-black people in his movies.

And why shouldn't race be the focal point of his films?

That's fine - but in every movie? Diversify. He has the talent and perhaps should try another genre of film leaving out the racial issues in which people on all sides of the spectrum are judging him.

 

[Michael Reuben]

perhaps should try another genre of film

Like what? Some mass-produced, PR-department-driven good-for-an-opening-weekend studio concoction like so many films that routinely get slammed here?
For almost 20 years, Spike Lee has done what many people here claim they wish more filmmakers would do: put his personal stamp on distinctive creations that reflect a singular vision and passion and that couldn't have come from any other director. He's done it from both inside and outside the studio system, often against very tough odds (the struggles to finish Malcolm X are a prime example). Whether or not you like the results, you have to respect the sheer accomplishment of getting such productions made in the first place. Spike Lee is doing what we're always saying directors should do: follow an artistic vision wherever it leads.
And people who think he only makes films that are "about" race obviously haven't seen many of his films. Racial issues are always part of the landscape, as they are in just about every film set in a contemporary urban environment. But they're hardly the centerpiece of Clockers or Girl 6 or She's Gotta Have It or He Got Game or Mo' Better Blues or even Crooklyn or Summer of Sam. Some of these I like, and some I don't. But at least I've seen them, which obviously isn't the case for many of the participants in this thread.
M.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

I think Spike Lee makes eloquent, articulate, occasionally provocative films on interesting topics. I also think he does a lousy job explaining them in interviews. If he could go into an Avid bay and edit and re-loop his interviews, I'm sure they would be much better. As it stands, he is a much better filmmaker than he is a celebrity.

I much prefer that to the reverse.

Regards,

 

[StephenC]

For Spike's view on DTRT,please see the wonderful and informative Criterion 2 disc set.His "last word" on the supplement disc talks about his and Mookies motivations and the media's reaction to the film.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Thanks, Stephen. I'll definitely pick that up.