Spike Lee: what's everybody's problem? (1 Viewer)

[Russ Lucas]

In my opinion, Do the Right Thing is the best and brightest statement on contemporary race issues by any director, American or not. I recently picked up Criterion's two-discer, and am amazed anew at how nuanced, insightful and (not a word typically associated with Lee) subtle the movie is. What an amazing movie-- a snapshot of 1989 politics and culture that is still fresh today-- and what a hard act to follow.
There's no reason in particular why Lee's work should have dipped so much in both subtlety and complexity since then, but I think there are some clues on the docu on the DVD. Witness the critical and public reaction by, by and large, the mainstream, non-predominantly black press that followed the movie. People expected riots, wondered aloud whether the film was a call to arms and faulted its portrayal of whites. Despite the fact that Lee dealt that film from an even-handed deck, he still got accused of rabble-rousing and stacking the deck. He made a complex, multi-faceted statement about how skin color and class differences plague all our relationships, showing the black characters to be prone to the same prejudices and uniquely weakened through the temptation to blame other cultural groups for their present-day inequity and still he was roundly dismissed by some as a mouthpiece for Al Sharpton. How could he have not been discouraged?
Sadly, almost as if to sadly fulfill the base things folks have said about him, he's become what his myopic critics wrongfully said he was after DTRT: one-note, oversimplistic, distracted by making Points and the expense of weaving them seamlessly into the interactions of believable characters in believable scenarios. There are still hints of a great filmmaker there--- the latter half of Malcolm X and fits and starts in He Got Game are pretty impressive. I hope he mellows in a positive way, tightens up his scope and lets loose with the fantastic work that School Daze and DTRT show he's uniquely capable of delivering. He's young, yet.

 

[Howard Williams]

Wow !!! Lots of good and interesting points.

I am one of those that like Spike Lee & I appreciate his work a lot.

I just wanted to add that I actually liked "Bamboozled". It pleasently surprized me. Lots of ideas, conflicts and relationships were explored. I would have liked to have seen a scene with the White creative executive actually interacting with his Black wife, bi-racial children and his own parents. How could Spike not include those scenes? The scenes with Jada and Big Black Af were excellent !! Also DelaCroix and his father. Man-Tan repeating "As long as I'm hoofing, and getting loot, I'm down". Man, that was so subtle yet powerful and says so much about many peoples mentality.

 

[StephenC]

From DTRT Criterion dvd:

"Do The Right Thing came out the summer of 1989 and here we are at the beginning of a new century,a beginning of a new millenium,and people all over the world still come up to me and ask me did Mookie do the right thing?I'm gonna be honest,not one person of color has ever asked me that question.Mookie threw the garbage can through the window,in my eyes(and I'm the author of this) because he just saw his best friend,Radio Raheim,get murdered by New York City's finest(NYPD).And here it is 10 years later and they are still doing the same thing."

-Spike Lee

 

[Seth Paxton]

And why shouldn't race be the focal point of his films? Obviously it's something that he is very passionate about.

Good point Mark. I wonder if Spike was white if he would be catching any of this sort of flack (regarding race relation themed films).

And I would say again - DtRT is AS HARD ON or HARDER ON the black community as it is the white community. I think there are some pretty tough pills to swallow in that film from a black standpoint. After all, Buggin' Out comes off like a fool yet he is the #1 "black activist" in the film. Even Mookie thinks he's being an idiot.

Plus Spike shows us Sal celebrating the community he serves, so we know the "no blacks on the wall" is not from some hatred. The man is just celebrating his own culture and obviously staying with the Italian theme that a pizzaria tends to have anyway. Does anyone watch that film and AGREE with Buggin Out? It sure feels like Spike doesn't IMO. In that way it seems more to question the "blind activism" that can occur without a true focus on purpose or understanding of valid goals or sense of fairness.

Think again of how Buggin Out comes off when confronting the white guy. He looks like a buffoon there too and not on accident. He is the instigator, his anti-white points are ridiculous, and Spike is fully releshing in mocking them at that point.

Plus a film like Clockers has very little to do with race relations, but rather with the corruption/destruction of his own race's culture from within. Certainly this is not only not a bad thing, but generally considered an extremely valid pursuit for any artist in any field.

 

[Todd H]

I have no problem with Spike. Heck I really enjoyed Do The Right Thing and Malcolm X. My problem is aside from those two films everything else he did pretty much sucked (especially the dreadful Summer of Sam). To each his own I guess...

 

[Scott Weinberg]

From today's IMDb News Brief:

Spike Lee has claimed that he was passed over to direct Ali because of objections by the film's star, Will Smith. Interviewed by Ed Gordon on BET Tonight, Lee said, "I wanted to do it. Will didn't want me to direct it." He recalled that during a face-to-face meeting, "the first thing Will said was, 'So Spike, how can you expand your vision?' When he asked that, I knew I was out." Michael Mann was eventually named director of the film -- and later was the focus of most critical complaints that it failed to provide adequate insight into the title figure. "Few white directors can get our stuff right," Lee told Gordon, referring to the Ali movie. "I'm tired of other people documenting our history."

"Our history?"
I can only imagine what Spike's reponse would be if a white director said this. :rolleyes

 

[Mark Pfeiffer]

As he has proven many times, Spike has a tendency to put both feet in his mouth.

Seth Paxton said:

I wonder if Spike was white if he would be catching any of this sort of flack (regarding race relation themed films).

Treading carefully, I'll say that I think this sort of thing would be a non-issue if it were even raised at all. (Of course, it would depend highly on what was being said.) I think he's held to a different standard, in part because of his race and in part because he intends for his films to be lightning rods. In making controversial films, he opens himself to more scrutiny than a "safer" filmmaker might be subjected to. There's probably something to be said regarding the treatment and portrayal of women in his films, but that's another discussion entirely.

Imperfect as he and his films can be, I'll take a new Spike Lee pic over (since he was mentioned earlier) Brett Ratner's latest.

 

[Reginald Trent]

Quote:

And why shouldn't race be the focal point of his films? Obviously it's something that he is very passionate about.

----------------------------

Good point. Moreover, I also find it strange no one here ever mentions or complains about the lack of critcal treatment of race issues by numerous white directors in their films. I believe Spike Lee is trying to fill that void. I believe media attacks on Spike Lee are nothing more than a tactic to marginalize, discredit and ultimately silence him. To keep his opinions on issues of race Hush Hush.

 

[Brook K]

Thank you Stephen, even in this thread we've seen complaints about destroying Sal's business, the riot, throwing the can, but not one mention of Radio Raheem. Another black man killed by police. It's not Spike's opinion of what happens, pick up a newspaper. There were riots in Cleveland just last year over police shootings.

In addition to Seth's numerous good points, DTRT is also about personal responsibility. Taking responsibility for your actions, not blaming "The Man", not just talking about concepts, but taking actions. That's what the men on the streetcorner signify and also Rosie Perez and Joie Lee interactions with Mookie. There's the pizzaria, the Asian grocery, and John Savage's gentrification, but what are the black people doing, sitting around talking. The criticism that this film has a "one-sided" viewpoint is completely unfounded.

It's about becoming informed. Knowing your culture and your history. People today, black and white, know frightfully little history. This is one of Senor Love Daddy's tasks in the scene where he recites a litany of great black musicians. How can you come up with solutions to any problem if you don't know anything about the past?

Spike Lee allows us to draw our own conclusions as most great art will do. He doesn't lay everything out for us in a nice package. He wants us to THINK.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Spike Lee allows us to draw our own conclusions as most great art will do. He doesn't lay everything out for us in a nice package. He wants us to THINK.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I do agree though that if a white director were to say "They don't get our history right" about the Hughes Bros "From Hell" for example, Spike would probably be tweeked.
Of course that's not filmmaking, that's just his social opinion.
But that doesn't mean that Mann's film was necessarily anywhere what it could have been, nor that Lee wouldn't have made it better. Based on previous films I'd say Spike has the track record versus Mann thanks to Malcom X (since these 2 characters are so closely related).
However, I think Spike is wrong to think that "only black can tell black history". This is where he gets hung up because he often ONLY sees this side of things and obviously there is more to it than that.
If you want to end racism you can't be thinking that way either, than only a black man can tell black history in film. You have to also move ahead and see other races as EQUAL to you, meaning equally able to make a film based on another person's life.
Plus, the exercise itself shows an attempt by the white community to understand the black community, and that is also a forward step. Just cause Mann screwed the pooch doesn't make it a bad thing inherently.
In fact I have a big fat example of how wrong Spike is on this point...Leon Gast.
Maker of the finest Ali film "When We Were Kings". Heck one of the great documentaries about any black American period. And I would think that if Lee took the time to think about this he might reconsider his statement.
Or maybe Leon was one of the "few" white directors that get it right in his mind.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

As most of you probably noticed, two themes constantly show up when us who appreciate Lee talk about him. One, that he is deeply passionate about his work; and two, that Lee confronts us with ideas that we don't necessary agree, but thought provoking and important issues to consider. For these two reasons alone, he is an important filmmaker.

As for his belief that only black filmmakers should do movies about black history, well, it's debatable. I would certainly argue that Norman Jewison did quite poorly a job on The Hurricane in presenting Carter's story, and Mann's Ali really doesn't incorporate race relations as much as we would imagine. When We Were Kings, of course, is a documentary, and a terrific one at that, but that could also be the major factor, that in recreating a real story, white filmmakers have tended to shy away from race. I would argue that there is this silly idea in America that emphasis on race in the arts is inherantly bad; that it promotes racism itself. Yet, I think this is exactly the opposite. It is shying away from the race relation problems in this country. A movie like Malcom X or Do The Right Thing confronts our own beliefs on a much greater level than the two movies mentioned above.

And just to balance things out, I was enthralled by Bamboozled. It's a little messy a film, I admit, but it works as both a satire and melodrama for me. It's got bold ideas, and sheds light to some of the harsh cultural phenomenons we have. The final montage sequence is also beautifully moving.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

Seth just said that Spike was wrong to say:

"Few white directors can get our stuff right,"

Just for the record. In addition, the headline for the article in the IMDB blurb was "Spike Lee Blasts Will Smith" which is a pretty inflammatory way to characterize the statements he actually made.

Regards,

 

[Mark Pfeiffer]

It's not Spike's opinion of what happens, pick up a newspaper. There were riots in Cleveland just last year over police shootings.

It was Cincinnati, and the city is still grappling with the problems offset by this.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Ken, my intent was to represent his sentiment from 2 sentences into one blurb, but by quoting it it looks as if the intent is that it was a direct quote.

However his wording still says much of the same thing.

Few white directors can get our stuff right," Lee told Gordon, referring to the Ali movie. "I'm tired of other people documenting our history."

It's just as racist to assume someone can't make a proper film due to their race, even if they have failed to do so in the past. This is the sort of STEREOTYPING that blacks have been fighting themselves.

Taking examples and saying "see, whites aren't good at this" implies that SKIN COLOR is what makes these filmmakers poor at the job of filmmaking.

And Ali is an American to me, so that makes it MY HISTORY as well. On one side you have this battle to have more "black history" taught in schools as American history, yet it's supposed to be thought of as seperate. No. Ali goes down in my book as a great American.

Mann did not fail black America, he failed America period in not bringing the depth of Ali's life to the screen. The sooner that sort of thinking becomes commonplace, the sooner racial issues will become a moot point.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

Lee is "just as racist" because he is dissatisfied with "most" depictions of the historical role of African Americans by non-African Americans? That is one way of reading it.
On the other hand, it is easy to say that we should be color blind, but the hard reality is that if our society is not color blind, but in fact still segregated in ways we don't like to admit, then it is irresponsible to deny it. Suggesting that a white man's persepctive on Muhammad Ali or Medgar Evers should be the same as a black man's persepctive on the same two people is noble. Suggesting that they are both valid is reasonable. Suggesting that they actually are the same is living in fantasyland.
Spike paints things a bit too broadly, which he frequently does in his interviews if not his films (see my earlier post). It's not like any shmoe off the street could make a better Ali biopic than Michael Mann as long as he is not white (pause for thanks to heavens that Mario Van Peebles was acting in the film and not directing it). It's also not like any two black directors would make the same film. In that sense, it comes off as racist, but I would stop short of saying "just as racist" unless one believes that white fimmakers have in fact done justice to black history.
He's responding to a pretty obvious institutional bias by saying he is tired of seeing it. He does not say anything akin to "only blacks can tell black history", only that he's tired of the low-batting average he has observed to date and frustrated by the relatively few swings that directors of color have gotten at the same plate.
Spike probably could have made Ali for half the money and done the same box-office, but he was ironically turned away because they were concerned he would not be mainstream enough.
Regards,

 

[Mike Broadman]

There's an undertone in the last bunch of posts that I'd like to bring out for purposes of clarification.

Like any artist who is pours so much of himself into his work, Lee's films will reflect his own beliefs- some of it intentional and some not. So, what do we know about Lee's beliefs?

Lee embraces the concept of strengthening the black community, of supporting one's "brothers," and of collectively fighting the injustices imbued upon them as marginalized sub-culture. These ideas were made prominent by the Nation of Islam. Unfortunately, the Nation of Islam as an organization has proved less than exemplary. However, many black people, including Lee, take part of the message to heart.

IMO, the good side of this way of thinking is that it emphasises responsibility and discipline among blacks and strives to remove the victim and servile mentality that has been pushed upon black Americans since slavery. The downside (again, IMO), is that it stresses the grouping of of Americans into subdivisions. This sort of thing comes up in the issue of interracial relationships, and Jungle Fever shows Lee's unease with that practice.

Ok, so what does all this have to do with movies? Well, it means that though I don't share Lee's worldview completely, I understand where he's coming from and appreciate its role in his films.

Seth brought up Buggin' Out's behavior, and made some excellent points. I'd only like to add one other thing I got from that film: Buggin' Out's absurd rebellion against a pizzeria is representative of the frustration felt by many blacks who can't rebel against the government, their poor upbringing, lack of education, or abusive law enforcement. So, Buggin' Out fights one thing he can: a pizzeria. He's absurd, but that feeling runs parallel with the guys on the street who sit around and complain how all the businesses in their neighborhood are owned by non-blacks, yet do nothing about it. The riot scene was a case of blacks expressing their anger in a negative, destructive way.

 

[Brook K]

Thanks for correcting me Mark.

I also thought that Bamboozled was Spike's most thought provoking work since DTRT. But the film becomes terribly unfocused in the 3rd act. Still, this is information that I'm glad I was made aware of and the kind of thing that far too few filmmakers are willing to tackle.

 

[Michael Reuben]

But the film becomes terribly unfocused in the 3rd act.

I agree, but that little "documentary" coda is still one of the most powerful endings to a film I've seen in a long time. It's a real punch to the gut because it shows you that, no matter how exaggerated you think the film was, reality has already surpassed it.

M.

 

[Terrell]

I can only imagine what Spike's reponse would be if a white director said this.

Exactly! He speaks out of both sides of his mouth, usually coming off as having racist opinions. And you're right Scott. If a white director had made that comment, he would've gone berserk. I think from a directing standpoint, Lee is talented. So I have no problem there. I just think he's a butthole. If he's not, he comes of that way.

As for history, what history does he mean? I doubt Lee knew much if anything about Ali's history. Who's to say an older white director, who has seen Ali's journey, can't do a better job than a young director who was too young to even remember what Ali went through. I wouldn't call Ali a film about black history. I would call it a film about one black man's journey and history. I question whether Spike Lee is truly knowledgeable about Ali's history.

As for the film not making a lot of money, I'm of the opinion that no subject on Ali would have made a lot of money. It seems to me, that Ali was not well liked during his boxing career. It's obvious why that is the case. More people have warmed up to him as he's gotten older and sicker. Maybe that's because he's mellowed and because many felly sympathetic towards him because of his condition. He is an icon. But I don't think Ali's life was an interesting subject for a lot of people to spend $7-$9 to watch. Mainly because most people didn't like that younger, brash, and arrogant Ali. Nor did many care for his draft dodging.