"Southwest will charge large fliers extra fare" - What is your opinion? (1 Viewer)

[Charles J P]

You are misinformed if you think this is the reason Americans are fatter than others.

I'm not misinformed, because I was stating an opinion, not a fact. I am speaking from personal experience. 90% of foriegners I have met have been thinner than the average american, and all that I have actually approached the issue with have expressed discust with the thought of letting your body go so badly. They also all ate a much more balanced diet than even I do (and I only weigh about 160). I'm not trying to make the claim that there are not large foriegn people, but rather that on the whole, the population of most other countries is healthier and slimmer than americans.

 

[Leila Dougan]

In Canada, the government is suggesting airlines supply an extra seat to oversize passengers free of charge. Somehow, I don't think that is going to fly with the industry.

Quite frankly, neither do I. And not only do I think it won't fly with the industry, I don't think it will fly with other passengers. I fit just fine in an airline seat. In fact, I was crammed onto two 100% filled flights a few weeks ago as well. My problem is that even though I *do* fit, I STILL want a larger seat. If there are larger seats available for the same cost, and since Southwest does not assign seats, can they stop me from sitting in one of these larger seats? Now granted, if the flight was full and a large person needed the larger seat, I would gladly give it up. But if the flight was only half filled, would I be allowed to sit in the large seat?

 

[Patrick Sun]

Charles, it's one of my mod duties to try and steer discussions back to something that resembles the subject title of the thread. Sure, there is thread drift, but if that other topic that so fascinating, then a second thread should be started, so that the initial thread can be devoted to the original topic at hand.

Getting bogged down in curing obesity is a pipe dream when it comes to people who flow into other seats on an airplane. Dealing with reality of the situation, and discussing what's the most fair and practical way to handle this problem is a more useful way to spend our time and energy on the topic.

 

[ikiru]

On a lighter note, if Southwest Airlines didnt want bigger people flying their planes, they are going in the wrong direction. They need to make their seats SMALLER. How many bigger people would want to fly Southwest then?

-ikiru

 

[Justin Doring]

"I fail to see how this is, in any way, discrimination."

This is even more disturbing.

"No, I dont think its fine, I think its legal, and many of the respondants feel the same."

So whatever is legal is right and whatever is illegal is wrong? Well that's a frightening, if not unique, attitude.

 

[Dave E H]

They need to make their seats SMALLER. How many bigger people would want to fly Southwest then?

Probably not many would change their behavior. It's all about cost. Sure, first class seats are nicer - big and comfy - but larger people will try to fit into smaller coach seats due to the fact the coach seats are cheaper. And since SW is about the cheapest airline around, I don't think they would deter many people by making smaller seats.

 

[AaronNWilson]

"Being fit and fat at the same time is a myth."

Umm no its not. There is people who are fat that can run marathons, which is something I for sure would not like to attempt.

As for the europeans being slimmer I put it down to fewer readily available fast food outlets, less coke being drunk, a lack for free soda refills in restaurants. I don't necessarily think that portions are smaller.

 

[Patrick Sun]

My friends who travel in Europe would disagree on the portions for main entrees, US-sized portions tend to be larger than the entrees outside of the US.

But again, how does this go towards Southwest's new policy of charging people for an extra seat who don't fit into one seat?

 

[DennisHP]

It's not a new policy. It has been in existance since 1980.

Several other carriers have similar policies, including Houston-based Continental and Fort Worth-based American, which requires purchase of a second seat for customers who "protrude extensively into an adjacent seat." Northwest Airlines allows the passenger to buy the second seat at the same price paid for the first seat rather than a more expensive last-minute rate.

Apparently people have been dealing with this issue without problems until now.

 

[Ryan Wright]

"I fail to see how this is, in any way, discrimination."
This is even more disturbing.

That's nice. Of course, it means absolutely nothing to me, since you failed to provide any details. Perhaps you could, oh, I don't know, tell us why you think it's disturbing? I, for one, would really like to know.
I'll tell you what I find disturbing: The fact that so many people believe I should somehow be ashamed of myself because I don't want another person's ass sharing my seat with me. Boy, what a jerk I am. [impression type=savage,michael] I should show some sensitivvvvity. [/impression] Sorry, but I'm not falling for it. Airline seats are small enough as it is and I'm not going to feel bad for insisting that I have my very own seat for my very own ass when I fly.
You think that's discrimination? The fact that I paid for a seat on an aircraft and I don't want to share it - that's discrimination? Think what you will - you're entitled - but you're wrong, and I won't apologize for my feelings on this matter.
Look: One of my best friends is large. He'd fit in an airline seat, but just barely. One of the coolest guys I worked with at my last employer would most certainly spill over into another seat. I spent many hours BSing with him. He's a great guy - one of the better people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. I would never, ever put somebody down due to their size, or otherwise say negative things about them. Large people are no different than you and I - they're just bigger. Aside from health issues, there's nothing wrong with that. However, my acceptance of them as a person does NOT mean I want to cuddle with them on an 8 hour flight! I'll sit next to a large person until they protrude over into my seat, and which point I'll move to another seat or wait for the next flight.
Asking large people to buy a second ticket on a full flight so that another passenger does not have to sit in misery is not discrimination. It's absolutely fair to everyone involved.

 

[Jeff Rogers]

I think that the word "discrimination" is used too freely in this thread.
I am one to think that discrimination is when "One is to be exluded or denied a service of some type". Obese people are still getting to ride their plane and make their trip. Which is all that the airline is required to do, make sure they get there safely.
If people scream discrimination on this...then technically I can demand a senior citizens discount at my local Denny's. I am 23. People pay different prices -- thats how it is. Use more..pay more.

 

[Christopher P]

I can only accept it being described as discriminatory if the airlines were to drastically raise the prices for larger people so as to prevent them from being able to purchase tickets. Similar to when they allowed African Americans to vote, some people in still made it hard for them to do so. They technically obeyed the laws, but acted in a manner to prevent a certain class of people from doing what they were entitled to do by law. I don't see that happening here.

CHris

 

[MikeAlletto]

Everyone seems to be forgetting what was actually said. They won't charge someone for another seat because they are too big. They will charge them if they can't fit in 1 seat and need 2 seats. I need 1 seat I am forced to pay for one seat. Someone else needs 2 seats, they should be forced to pay for 2 seats. Its as simple as that. People have spun this up into something it isn't and that is where the debate comes from. Its all about money. If you take up 2 seats, you get charged for 2 seats...simple.

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

For the record, I agree with the policy that a person should pay for two seats if they require two seats.
However, I strongly disagree with everybody that thinks that anybody can get into shape if they simply put a little effort into it. While this may be true of many people (possibly even most), genetics, metabolism, and other factors can make this much more difficult for some than for others. I had a neighbor in college that was severely obese and I always assumed that she was just a fat slob that overate, until I learned that she had been living on 800 calories a day for the last year and still wasn't loosing weight. I also know a family that eats only junk food, but they are in great shape, so it works both ways. Offering anecdotal evidence of "I can lose this much weight if I only..." or "my sister lost..." doesn't change the fact that this might not apply to all people.
Coincidentally, I found Link Removed on msn that addresses some of this:

Some people accumulate more fat than others, and the reasons for that have not been full identified either, although there are theories.

 

[DennisHP]

Why wasn't anyone complaining about it 22 years ago when it became policy? My Answer: There weren't as many lawyers back then who want to stretch the limits of a new thing called liberalism. Our instutitions pump out thousands of law degrees each year and these people need work. You wouldn't discrimintate against them by denying them the right to make a discrimination claim would you?

 

[Joe McCabe]

Well said, Ryan and Dennis!!
I own a hardwood flooring company. My prices are based on square footage. (Size of a room)
Now, if I refinish Mr. Jones' 250 sq. foot Living Room, and then go and refinish Mr. Smith's 500 sq. foot Living Room, should I charge them the same price because they are both Living Rooms??
Even though one was twice the size as the other?
So why should a man who is twice the size, and requires twice the space as another man, get to pay the same amount as the single seat occupant?
See, this is just more PC brainwashing to me.
People actually believe that it's okay for the airline to lose money on that extra seat, because someone is obese. Like Ryan said, we are supposed to be ashamed of ourselves for thinking that overweight people do not have the right to invade our personal space, and cause us displeasure. Why shouldn't the overweight person be ashamed of themself for imposing in such a fashion?
Believe me, I had the displeasure of sitting next to an overweight guy, on flight from Philly to Las Vegas, and you DO NOT want to get me started on that story!
Also, I find that people with these "ideals", tend to not be business owners themselves.
If you needed to make money from those seats, you wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude about losing the fare.
The bottom line is, things come down to dollars and cents.

 

[Charles J P]

So whatever is legal is right and whatever is illegal is wrong? Well that's a frightening, if not unique, attitude.

Wow, more putting words in my mouth. Lets see how you like it.

Why do you hate me? Why do you hate all the people here that disagree with you? It is quite clear that you hate us all because we have a valid argument too?

 

[Malcolm R]

In a number of employment discrimination cases, obesity has been classified as a handicap eligible for protection under anti-discrimination laws. Female flight attendants have sued the airlines several times over their attempts to fire/discipline attendants who were deemed "overweight."

If it can be seen as a handicap in other instances, and would therefore fall under the jurisdiction of the ADA and anti-discrimination laws, I would think similar arguments could be made for this policy.

I think trying to enforce this policy on the general public will only make a lot of work for a lot of lawyers.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Please, let's keep it civil everybody. Just a reminder. Try not to make anything personal here. Everybody has feelings, and think about that as you post. Thanks, all!

 

[Eve T]

obesity has been classified as a handicap eligible for protection under anti-discrimination laws.

True and I find it absoultly ridiculous, that being overweight is now being classified as a handicap.
I know a few obese people who have handicapped plates and I get very angry when I see an obese person pull into a handicap spot just so they don't have to walk as far as everyone else. I once saw a very large person pull into a handicap space when someone with a van equipped with a wheel chair ramp was following behind looking for a handicap space. The guy with the van ended up parking not very far from where my car was parked. I saw him get out of his van, go down his wheelchair ramp and noticed that he didn't have any legs.
:frowning: then I saw him proceed to wheel his way across the parking lot. I became very upset when I saw this. Someone asked how heavy I used to be, well let's just say I was well over 125 pounds of what I should be. I know that doesn't sound like much...but when you are 4'11 inches tall and the average weight of a person of my height is anywhere from 98 to 115 pounds it is a tremendous amount of weight. So yes, I was obese, and yes I had a hard time walking long distances. But I did it and it has made a huge difference. Just ask the Subway guy Jared. (walking is good )
Back to the topic at hand, I realize that the flight attendents sued their employers because they were being judged on their size and not their job abilities, but this is a different animal all together. Southwest isn't hiring the people they sell a ticket to, they are providing a seat to the people they sell a ticket to. (A) seat, (one) (uno) per person. If you cannot sit in your own seat you should pay for the other seat you also occupy. Plain and simple.