Sony SCD-C2000ES vs SCD-C595

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by James W. Johnson, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I purchased a 595 a few weeks ago and like it quite abit, today I am going to pick up a C2000ES to do a comparison, as it stands I could easily live with the 595 for a long time but I like it enought that I am curious how much better/ if any the C2000ES sounds.

    I pulled the 595s cover off and took some pics and will do the same for the 2000ES.

    In my opionion the redbook and SACD performance on the 595 are better than my previous Denon DVD-2200 as well as a plethora of other DVD and CD players I have been thru over the last year which is roughly 15 different units.


    I'll post pics and thoughs as they come...I will have the pics of the guts of both units today.

    If anyone else can do this comparison then feel free to add your thought to this thread as well..I am sure others that are considering these players will appreciate it.
     
  2. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I started a web page for the pics of the 2 units.
    It is located here..
    http://home.comcast.net/~bentvalve/misc.htm


    So far the major differences are the 2000 has a nicer remote, headphone jack , coaxial digital audio out and a 5 year warranty.

    They both use the same PCB and main power supply and mechanically including the motors and optical pickup look identical to me as does the chasis and cover.
    The only differences are that the 2000ES has an aluminum front panel.

    As I said the audio PCBs are the same but there are a few different capacitors and chips on the 2000ES and the 2000ES has an additional power supply.

    Right off the bat the 2000ES sounds a tad cleaner and more detailed then the 595 but I am only on my second CD so well see how it goes. I know the 595 sounded better after I broke it in for a few days.

    I'll post more later.
     
  3. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Value per $$ assessment:

    Overall ES gear has alot more play room on the bargain table then straight lower end Sony stuff does so really its not a $399 vs $149 deal.... more like $350 vs $149 deal...still though more than 2X the cost for the ES.

    As it stands I feel the ES is the better value per $$ but that is because it fits my need abit better. It really does sound a tad cleaner so far so this is exciting, I am looking forward to hearing it after its broken in more.
    This is the best SACD player I have ever heard...its just so lively and exciting to listen to!

    There is already no doubt in my head which player will be going back.
     
  4. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    No interest? Well then I guess I'll just stop posting.

    Anyways one last bit of info since someone at AA wanted to know.

    Both use Burr Brown DSD1751 DACs, its probably a custom DAC built just for Sony. Both player use 3 chips each.

    Here is a close part number from Burr Brown so its probably similar to it..

    http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1791.pdf

    Now they were from different batches so its quite possible that the 595 uses lower quality chips.
     
  5. Kage

    Kage Stunt Coordinator

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    James, how much of a difference in sound quality on both SACD and Redbook did you notice from the Denon DVD-2200 to the SCD-CE595 and SCD-C2000ES? because I'm not to fond with SACD sound qaulity and redbook sound quality on my Denon DVD-2200, I'm impressed with its DVD-A sound quality. Do you think that the SCD-C2000ES is worth the extra money compared to SCD-CE595?
     
  6. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Well I suppose its really a matter of taste, alot of people like the 2200s sound quality.

    That being said, to my ears the 2200 was dull and flat sounding , almost as if the material was being clipped at the top and bottom then rinsed to the point of being washed out... and the 595 and the 2000 (especially the 2000)sound lively , detailed and 3 dimentional.

    I had an MSB Link DAC 2 for a short while and not too long ago I had a Yamaha RX-V3300 that had Burr Brown DACs. I think both of the above sounded better than the 2200 as well. Heck I even had an old Sony ES player from 91' that sound better than the Denon..actually I think it sounded better than the Yamaha and MSB Link as well.

    My Aragon Soundstage has a sweet ,sweet sounding stereo pre-amp section and its DAC sound incredible.
    I could have just used the 2200 as a transport and called it a day but I like to keep a few different flavors on hand. The Aragon is staying and so is the 2000ES.
    My search is over for an SACD player....that is unless some issue arrises with it. Hopefully it wont.

    Which is better? If $149 is all you have then thats all you have.. get the CE595 and be happy because it sounds great. Keep your 2200 though because it may not be your type of sound.
    If you like the extras the 2000 provides and have the money for it then go for it. I got mine from a local store for $360 + tx and they are not even on display yet so you should not have to pay the full $399 if you go with one.
    Oade Bros have some in stock and their price is better than what I paid.

    Buying local is nice because if it turns out to not be your cup of tea then you can return it.
     
  7. Kage

    Kage Stunt Coordinator

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    James, thanks for your reponse. Tommorrow I might buy the SCD-CE595 to see if I like it or try to find the SCD-C2000ES locally.
     
  8. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    James, I'm not surprised by your result. There was a real noticable difference between the older, comparable models...the SCD-775 and the SCD-C222ES. Sounds like the new models have the same differences as the former ones, which I compared.
     
  9. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    James, don't stop posting. I just sent an E-Mail to my local dealer about the 2000ES. I am seriously looking at it for my basement system, not my main system. It is slower arriving at the East Coast. My local dealer had no info on it the middle of last week when I ordered an Omnimount for the rear center in the basement system I am putting together. I am throwing a decent outboard DAC down there and already have a very good DVD-A/DVD-V player (Samsung HD1000 - which is 37.5 lbs. and upconverts the video via the component outs) and am really curious as to how it sounds on SACD. I'll probably buy it for the warranty and the fact that with my reference system it won't see tons of use but I want something decent sounding.
     
  10. Drew_W

    Drew_W Screenwriter

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    People said the 2200 had 98% of the performance of the 2900...that's garbage. The 2200 was far inferior, and rather harsh sounding compared to the 2900 which had very good Redbook playback for a DVD Player. SACD as well was much better in the 2900, and compared favourably to the Sony 222ES.

    Now the 2900 isn't the best of CD Players either, so I added a Musical Fidelity A3.24 DAC to it. Much much better. Now I'm thinking of moving to a Sony SACD player as a transport...the more impressions of the new Sony stuff the better!
     
  11. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Many, many thanks for the comparisons! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I will vouch for the ES 5 year warranty, as my 4.75 year old 555ES just died. Took it into my local center on Friday, had it on Monday, they replaced the power supply and some other things, no charge, works like new.

    And remember if you get a friendly local authorized dealer (those in So Cal I highly recommend www.yawaonline.com - they can only sell Sony stuff in the store, not online though) you can get ES stuff for less than MSRP.
     
  12. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Well, now Sony has my attention enough that I want to try one of their older SACD players for comparison.

    I am going to see if I can find either a 222ES or a 555ES..I really want to compare the audio boards and other electrical parts inside.

    I really wish I had ~$1500 to burn so I could try an SCD-777 or XA9000ES out as well.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>


    So I already know the 595 and 2000ES are excellent sounding but there is no question that Sony cut some corners this generation vs the last.
    The build quality lesser and if you compare the specs off all of these players the 595 and 2000ES end up at the bottom.

    Pretty much all the older players have a frequency response of 2Hz to 50kHz while these 2 new ones
    were chopped to 2Hz to 40kHz...not that it means much
    because I doubt I can hear that last 10kHz.


    They either changed their method of testing or these new players are quite abit lesser quality IN COMPARISON with the older players numbers.
    This would be irrelavent to put these againt another makers nubmers since testing differs between manufacturers.

    % of Total Harmonic Distortion in SACD mode/dynamic range
    XA9000ES .0012 108dB
    777ES .0012 108dB
    555ES .0015 105dB
    222ES .0018 104dB
    CE745 .0020 103dB
    2000ES .0032 101dB
    CE595 .0035 100dB

    % of THD in CD mode/ dynamic range
    XA9000ES .0017 100db
    777ES .0017 100db
    555ES .002 99db
    222ES .002 99db
    CE745 .0025 98db
    2000ES .0032 97db
    CE595 .0039 96dB
     
  13. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    I'm sure that they had to cut some corners, didn't the 222ES cost $500 or more? They are bringing the 2000ES at $350 (sure to be had for less) and the CE595 at $150. Frankly, I'd be shocked if they didn't cut some corners.

    Since I'm pretty sure I can't hear between 40-50KHz, and probably can't tell the difference between .002 and .0032 THD, I'll be fine with the new crop.

    If I get the 10% coupons from Best Buy that some around the country are getting I'll probably spring for a CE595 this weekend. I know I earlier touted the 5 year ES warranty, but at under $150 take-home, the CE595 officially is classified (to me) as disposable electronics. [​IMG]
     
  14. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Anyone compare these players to the Pioneer 563A or the older 222ES and 555ES CD/SACD players in terms of SACD audio quality?

    What is the bass management like: a more reasonable 80 Hz cutoff or a way too high 120 or 200 Hz like some cheaper players? Would Sony be using analog bass management if their newer players don't convert DSD to PCM in order to do signal manipulation?

    Are there any single disc ES audio-only SACD players coming out that aren't priced into the stratosphere?
     
  15. Ben LG

    Ben LG Stunt Coordinator

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    Appreciate the info James.

    How about the Philips 795sa? It looks very similar to the 595 and is around the same price range, anyone try that one out yet?
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    I got the 'CE595 about a week and a half ago, and it's an excellent player for the money. Frankly, it's amazing that Sony can make a player that sounds this good for $150. With CDs, the 'CE595 sounds controlled and surprisingly three-dimensional. I do not detect the thin, brittle, or shrill sound on the 'CE595 that I have often found on other budget CD players. With SACDs, the 'CE595 is simply astounding. It is a bonafide bargain. In comparing it to the 'C555ES, I found that the 'CE595 held its own. The 'C555ES sounds smoother with greater layering, especially with CDs. Still, the difference is not as great as one would expect given that the 'C555ES was much more expensive ($1700 retail upon its introduction in April 2001). For critical listening, I will go with the 'C555ES, but the 'CE595 will see a lot of use in my house.
     
  17. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    What is the bass management like: a more reasonable 80 Hz cutoff or a way too high 120 or 200 Hz like some cheaper players? Would Sony be using analog bass management if their newer players don't convert DSD to PCM in order to do signal manipulation?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    Unfortunately the BM is crumby, and cannot answer wether or not it converts DSD to PCM or not.
    You can look at how it works in the manual:
    www.docs.sony.com/release/SCDCE595.pdf

    Personally I prefer 2 channel direct SACD anyways and if I do any critical listening its always in this mode.



    Are there any single disc ES audio-only SACD players coming out that aren't priced into the stratosphere?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    I am not sure but I'd have to assume Sony will eventually include SACD on their low cost DVD players.
     
  18. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    BTW after another day or so now I am not so clear on which unit I will keep...if the 2000ES was built better than the 595 the decision would be easy, these units are much more alike than they are different.

    I paid $141 + tx for the 595 and $360 +tx for the 2000ES....quite a leap.

    I hate returning things to the store so I am going to try
    trading the 2000ES for an older Sony unit like a 555ES
    then I can crack it open and add it to my comparison page.
     
  19. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Sony did not announce one for this generation or last. I would assume that you will not see them. The XA9000ES is it and you could probably get a used one for low 1k range. That is about it.
     
  20. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Well the BM news is a little disheartening. I'm torn between buying this now and splitting duties with my RP91 which also doesn't have good BM for DVD-A...or waiting for the Denon DVD-2910 to come out. I know that will cost me a pretty penny ($649 MSRP) but I'll get (theoretically) BM for both formats, retain the 4:3 to 16:9 mode of the RP91, and get better layer change and video performance for DVDs.

    Time to start saving up... [​IMG]
     

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