Should I Join the Lexicon Family? Even if its only a DC-1!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Eric A, Mar 1, 2002.

  1. Eric A

    Eric A Second Unit

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    I am in the process of upgrading back to separates and I just got my amps nailed down today. I was wondering what the pros and cons of a Lexicon DC-1 would be. I do not have enough for a DC-2 or up. I have about $1100 to spend and wonder if there would be any better options out there besides a Lexicon. Also, can the DC-1 be upgraded to have DPL 2 or would I even need it with Logic 7. I am currently set up for 7.1 with NHT Super Zeros in the rear, NHT 6.3s in the ceiling for sides and NHT 1.5s and AC-1 for the front. I have an SVS sub. My amplification will be 2 Soundstream DA-1s and 2 Soundstream DA-2s. All rated at 200 wpc THX. Any comments or suggestions. I will post this on a few more forums as well. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Hi Eric,

    IMO, a DC1 loaded with V4 is an incredible value for ~ $1100. Remember Steve Dodds? The man who's owned over 10 processors in 12 months? At the very end of his upgrading, he bought a Tag McLaren and had his DC1 for sale. I believe, after a few days, he sold his tag and decided to keep his DC1....

    Logic 7 is better than both your former 6axis and DPL2.
     
  3. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric,

    As far as processing goes a V4 DC-1 has the exact same processing as a V4 DC-2 or MC-1.

    A DC-1 is more limited in inputs (digital and video) compared to a DC-2 or MC-1 so you should make sure it is enough for your system.

    It is possible to double the coax inputs to 4 on a DC-1 fairly easily and seamlessly.

    If you are looking for one be sure it is a DD/DTS model and that it is already running v4 software. Also later DC-1s had 24 bit DACs instead of 20 bit and 20 bit ADCs instead of 16 bit. You can tell which is which by the serial number.

    "can the DC-1 be upgraded to have DPL 2 or would I even need it with Logic 7. I am currently set up for 7.1

    No, DPLII isn't available on the Lex and there are going to be no further upgrades to that platform. Seeing how you have a 7.1 speaker setup already you really wouldn't miss DPLII at all since you could take full advantage of Logic 7.

    Shawn
     
  4. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    Eric,

    Be careful with the DC-1. There are some versions that do not have DD or DTS. To keep reasonably current, be sure that the DC-1 has been upgraded to include DD, DTS and THX.

    "Also, can the DC-1 be upgraded to have DPL 2 or would I even need it with Logic 7."

    No and no. Honestly, Logic 7 will give you all of the capability of DPL II plus the added features of steered (non-mono) rear surrounds.

    Michael
     
  5. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    One thing to remember about the DC-1's is that they totally lack any sort of 5.1 inputs for DVD-A or SACD...you'd have to add some other sol'n if that's important to you. If it were me I'd rather get an Outlaw, new DAC's, allows for SACD, more inputs and is cheaper to boot.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  7. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  8. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I have heard that in 2 channel stereo, that the DC-1 is substantially "noisier" than the DC-2, and that the DC-2 is "slightly" noisier than the MC-1.
    There *are* differences in the internal electronics between all 3 units. But the DC-2 and MC-1 are close.
    I took a look at the DC-2 and MC-1. I was really psyched in terms of what you get for the (current) prices.
    But what did them in for me was this:
    For proper Logic 7 decoding, it's supposed to be 7.1 where the rears stay the rears, but you add dipoles to each side of the listening position. 5.1 is 5.1, but I was really looking for the Logic 7 capability.
    Anyway, in my HT I have a 6.1 set up. The 2 (std) rears (30 deg back from horiz) plus a rear center (in between). Now, aside from some arguments that this isn't that great of a setup for imaging and such [​IMG], it's how my system is set up, and Logic 7 really won't work with it.
    I kept hoping that through some software magic that the Lex could "do" 6.1, but just doesn't seem to be the case.
    I was kind of bummed when I came to this conclusion. And the DC-2 and MC-1 use 24/96 DACs and ADCs that I was kind of looking forward to!
    But if you can get 24/192's in the Outlaw... That's where I keep coming back to.
     
  9. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Eric,

    The Outlaw is not even in production yet. And even if the first units do ship by the beginning of April, if you are not on the waiting list yet, it could be much longer before you get one.

    In fact, why not just get the DC1 V4 now. THEN, when the Outlaw does ship and gets rave reviews from lots of owners, you can always order one and have 30 days money-back to compare it against the DC1...keep the one you like and return/sell the other at little money lost. I know you are proficient in selling gear, and understand that the DC1 at $1100 should hold its value well in the next several months (you might even make a couple of bucks).

    Ricky
     
  10. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    "Maybe, but when I very briefly listened to a DC-2 versus an MC-1, the MC-1 sounded better with regard to background noise during music playback."

    OK, that has nothing to do with what I said. I said the processing on all three (running v4 software) is identical. It is, no question about it. The DSP section of the three units is the same as well, assuming they are all the same feature wise (DD/DTS).

    The difference between them is in the ADC, DACs, analog stages after the DACs, inputs/outputs etc...etc.

    Kevin,

    "I kept hoping that through some software magic that the Lex could "do" 6.1, but just doesn't seem to be the case. "

    Not if you want to use Logic 7 as due to their research Lexicon believes that a single rear channel directly behind the listener is a bad idea.

    Shawn
     
  11. Eric A

    Eric A Second Unit

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    Thanks for all the input. The DC-1 I am looking at is $1100.00 for a version 3.1. The person selling it states it is a newer production unit and has the updated DACs. I do not know though and can ask more questions. What exactly should I be asking? How much will it cost to upgrade to version 4?

    Ricky,

    I am all over your idea. I plan on getting the Lex if I can and then wait to see how really "awesome" the Outlaw is. If it is the "ultimate" processor as everyone thinks it is I will go that route. At this point SACD/DVD-A is not important to me. Thanks for all the input and keep the suggestions coming.
     
  12. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric,

    "What exactly should I be asking?"

    Find out the serial number. Also make sure it is a DD/DTS model.... not just a DD model.

    "How much will it cost to upgrade to version 4? "

    $300. If it is a DD only model it can be upgraded to DD/DTS v4 for $500.

    Shawn
     
  13. Jeff H

    Jeff H Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric, another option in that price range is a Citation 5.0. They are harder to find, but stand up very well compared to the Lexicon. I had a Citation 7.0 and went to a DC2. I think to 2 channel is better in the Citation and 6-axis is very similar to Logic 7. In some cases I prefer the L7 and sometimes preferred the 6 axis. Usually, they sell for about $1000.00. If you want 7.1, get the Lex or Citation. You will not be dissapointed.
     
  14. Eric A

    Eric A Second Unit

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    Shawn,

    I will ask the serial #. What exactly is inlcuded in the 4.0 upgrade besides THX Surround EX? Thanks again.

    Jeff,

    I used to own 7.0 Citation and loved it. I was an early adopter in the Citation gear with the full Citation system and I waited and waited (ala Outlaw 950) for the digital upgrade they promised. Needless to say it never came. The 5.0 was a totally different machine and wasn't close in analog performance that the 7.0 was and it had tons of noise problems. I am a huge Jim Fosgate fan and even was able to speak with him a few times while I was in the business in the early 90's, but I swore myself off the Citation head units after my experience. I still love the amps though.
     
  15. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric,

    "What exactly is inlcuded in the 4.0 upgrade besides THX Surround EX? "

    DTS-ES, a bug fix having to do with using Bass Enhance processing on DTS sources, a 2 second timeout option for the front panel display and I think the AV-Sync delay was enlarged to up too 60ms.

    I think that is about it. v3 was the big upgrade (new remote, lots of operational changes, upgrades to the Logic 7s) and v4 was basically to include THX Surround EX and DTS ES decoding.

    Shawn
     
  16. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Eric,

    Before I got my MC1 last month, I had found a couple of DC1 with V4.0 for ~ $1100. Just keep on looking on ebay, audioreview, and audiogon. Plus someone on this forum is selling one.
     
  17. Eric A

    Eric A Second Unit

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    Shawn,
    One more time....Here's the SN[​IMG]CI LO497 4578. Can you tell me anything from this? Thanks.
     
  18. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric,

    "4578. Can you tell me anything from this?"

    That would have had the 20 bit DACs and 16 bit ADC from the factory.

    The changeover was somewhere in the 7k range of the serial numbers.

    It really isn't a big deal either way as those that have heard both say there really isn't a difference in sound. Just that the later serial numbers are obviously a little newer.

    I can't say what version DC-1 (base, THX, DD or DD/DTS) it is from the serial number. If you call Lexicon they might be able to tell you.

    Shawn
     

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