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Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films)

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Ockeghem, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. ScottRE

    ScottRE Supporting Actor

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    If they're gonna go back in time, I'd take a "Pike Series," and even a "Young Kirk" series, but based on what we know about him from TOS: Finnegan, being a "Stack of books with legs," his friendship with Gary Mitchell and the relationships with woman from that time. Then let him get onto the Farragut with Captain Garrovick and whatnot. He doesn't need to know McCoy or anyone from his time as the Enterprise captain.

    Hell, I'd be happy with his life just before he joins the service. It would be interesting to see them explore what made OUR Kirk tick.
     
  2. BobO'Link

    BobO'Link Producer

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    Since we're listing:

    1. TOS
    2. Voyager
    3. DS9
    4. Enterprise
    5. TAS
    6. TNG
    7. Discovery (Based solely on the first season - like Scott said, it's a good generic SF series but doesn't feel like it belongs in the Prime Universe pre-dating TOS. I'd absolutely buy it as a BRU prequel or if it'd been written to be post-Voyager.)
     
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  3. Osato

    Osato Producer

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    On Picard it doesn’t help my interest as TNG is the series that hasn’t worn well for me.

    The access to these shows is also a barrier for me. A great barrier.
     
  4. Osato

    Osato Producer

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    Young Sybok series.
     
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  5. Blimpoy06

    Blimpoy06 Screenwriter

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    I have a huge love for the original series and was entering college when TNG went on the air. Having grown up with the show on TV and in books, I was looking forward to a new incarnation of Star Trek in 1987. For the first three years of TNG, I was pretty satisfied. It gave an occasional nod or wink to the fans of the original, but it really was trying to be it's own thing.

    Around the fourth season, the writers of TNG became comfortable in their own history of the show. They started to play it safe by having characters return and story lines were visited again. It was around this time that I became bored. I still watched, but I was truly only impressed three or four times a season. Very rarely did the ship encounter a new alien race for the first time. They seemed to constantly transporting ambassadors and holding receptions for dignitaries. (I call this the Love Boat stage of the show). The cliff hanger season ending became a prerequisite, and usually a let down. Never a terrible show, just mostly dull.

    DS9 was a breath of fresh air. It went out of it's way to be different. I loved it from beginning to end. It still stands out as the most unique of all Trek series. And that is my big issue with the franchise since Voyager hit the air. There is too much emphasis on trying to replicate the style of Star Trek, but not it's heart.

    Voyager had a great premiere with "Caretaker". (I like it anyway). And then everything that made it special was taken away or ignored almost immediately. It might as well have been seasons 8 to 14 of TNG. I think I even read somewhere that serious thought was given to returning them to the Alpha Quadrant mid way through the series. They might as well. Voyager seemed to speak to Starfleet Command more than the Enterprise ever did. Barclay could have become a hologram on Voyager with the doctor and join the crew. Again, nothing overtly terrible about the show. Just a deja vu "been there, done that" vibe thru out.

    Enterprise was the first Trek show I ignored when it premiered. I had a serious case of franchise fatigue by that point. I started to watch in season three, and was a little impressed. I bought the show on DVD when it was released and really liked the first two years as well. Wish I gave it a chance with others that didn't. It might have made it to seven years.

    The much loved fourth season of Enterprise is actually my least favorite. It has everything a long time fan of Trek should love. Vulcan, Klingon and Federation history is all fleshed out and expanded to link the show to TOS. And that again is safe and dull writing to me. I rarely watch this season at all anymore.

    And then there is the great divide among Star Trek fans, Discovery. My big issue with it? Once again, it's not different enough from the previous shows in the franchise. More Klingons, Vulcans, Section 31, the Mirror Universe and now even the Enterprise with characters from the 60's. Been there, done that. Show me something new if you want to gain my attention. There are many here who like Discovery for the very things I've mentioned. But it's playing it safe in too many areas for me. Sex and violence are easy sells. I watched Star Trek to have my mind challenged while I watched likable characters. I just don't get it from Discovery yet.
     
  6. Jeff Flugel

    Jeff Flugel Screenwriter

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    I feel the same way about Voyager.

    For me, ranking the various Star Trek series is easy. TOS is waaaaay out ahead of everything else. I also really like both Next Gen and DS9, especially their casts...even if both shows often have...how to describe it?...an at times ponderous stateliness and play-it-safeness that renders them less dramatic and exciting than the original series.

    After that comes Enterprise, below by a significant margin. And far below that is Voyager (though I will confess that there are a few episodes I enjoy...for me, even what I consider subpar Trek is still watchable.)

    As for Discovery? Well, it's hard to say really, it just feels like such a different beast to me, which is both a blessing and a curse. Right now, I'm reserving judgment on the show until it finishes its run.
     
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  7. Osato

    Osato Producer

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  8. ScottRE

    ScottRE Supporting Actor

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    This sums up my feelings 100%. Every week began to feel the same, As much as people seem to dislike the first season, that year produced some memorable episodes. Never again did the series get as daring or as dark as "Conspiracy." Once it settled into a political drama, it just became a bit of a snooze fest. When they did something interesting (like "Schisms" and "Frame of Mind") I took notice.

    There was a time when this series was at its peak that everyone thought it would supplant TOS in the public consciousness. Well, I was very gratified to see that never happened.
     
  9. Blimpoy06

    Blimpoy06 Screenwriter

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    Yes, there were moments of brilliance. That's why I watched, and grew frustrated. I still consider season five's "Darmok" to be one of TNG's best. It really drives home how difficult first contact with new cultures would truly be. Without any knowledge of the history or context of a language, the translation will still only be a part of the puzzle to gaining a true understanding. Season two's "Loud as a Whisper" used learning sign language as a means to gain a common ground among enemies. I wish the show did more stories like this.

    Deanna Troi would have been the perfect person on the Enterprise to perform a "bridge the gap" role with new cultures. She could read the emotion and intent while negotiating. I always thought that her role of counselor should have been as a diplomat for the Captain, and not a therapist for the crew. Isn't that why she had a seat on the bridge next to him? She did go on almost all the away missions early on.
     
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  10. ScottRE

    ScottRE Supporting Actor

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    Yeah the format got tweaked and in the beginning, they didn't know how to write for Troi. "Pain...and sadness!" That's how I felt whenever she was on screen in the beginning. The Away Team concept was good (credit David Gerrold for that), but the idea of not putting the captain in danger kinda went away when Patrick Stewart felt he wasn't getting enough of the action.
     
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  11. Blimpoy06

    Blimpoy06 Screenwriter

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    It's kind of funny now because Discovery is trying to make the central character someone other than the Captain.
     
  12. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    This is interesting, I bought the entire TNG series on DVD back in the day, early 2000’s. I watched the entire series again on those sets. When the remastered Blu rays for TNG came out, I bought those. I’ve gotten as far as the 5th season and some of the 6th. I’ve had difficulty finishing and I’d like to continue to see the hard work the CBS team did to rebuild the series. I’m curious to see All Good Things. The series hasn’t had the strength of classic and memorable stories that TOS has.

    So it’s interesting that fans are so excited about the Picard series coming. I realize that the fans are separating the character from the series. And the fans are excited to see the character back in new adventures. Though I’m pretty sure a lot of fans will be disappointed. And I’m not trying to be cynical or negative. I just feel the plan for Picard will be very different from TNG. It’s not going to be what a lot of people expect. I hope I’m wrong. I hope it is a good series.
     
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  13. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    TNG did get complacent in its later years. I understand how that happens to a successful show. TOS never had the chance to get there; DS9 and ENT did shake up their formula throughout the run to try new things. TOS, through the third season, tried to say something and poke society in different ways. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't...but you always had to respect them for trying. I'm thinking specifically of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield..." Not the best episode ever, but it has a point of view and makes sure the audience sees it.

    TNG didn't. It was safe, designed for the 6 pm dinner time viewing. But when it did hit a home run, it HIT a home run, even in the later years. I am a huge fan of some of the mid to late Season 7 episodes like "Parallels," "Pegasus," "Eye of the Beholder" ,"Journey's End"...and ESPECIALLY "Preemptive Strike" and "All Good Things." Are they all classics? Nah...but they went all tried something new and succeeded for me.

    Seeing Stewart back in the role to redeem the abomination that was Nemesis is why I'm excited for ST:P. I have no doubt there will be a lot of grumbling and negativity and it won't be TNG Redux. No one should want that in 2019. Gotta keep pushing boundaries. That's what Trek does.
     
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  14. AndyMcKinney

    AndyMcKinney Cinematographer

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    I must say, my enthusiasm for the show was at its highest that first year (after that first handful of awful episodes were out of the way). Of course, some of that is probably just the excitement of there being new Star Trek on TV once again (I was a senior in high school).

    People keep slagging off Maurice Hurley and Herbert Wright, but especially after seeing the "Chaos on the Bridge" documentary, I can appreciate what Hurley was trying to do, and despite what people say he was like to work for/work with, I think the show lost something when Berman started exerting more and more influence.

    After the resolution of "Best of Both Worlds", I started to occasionally miss an episode, and that occasional miss turned into 2 or 3 in a row and by the type season 5 rolled around, I was just recording it out of obligation rather than anything else. Partway through season 5, I even stopped recording the show, and didn't watch it again until "All Good Things."
     
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  15. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I have a slightly different perspective. I just finished a rewatch of TNG; my wife had never seen the show before so we did it from start to finish. I still think it’s a phenomenal show and quite possibly my favorite of the Treks.

    I agree that not every single episode is perfect. And I recognize that the television conventions of the time made it difficult to do a lot of serialized storytelling. But within the limitations of their framework, I thought they did a great job of developing the characters over seven years and giving them compelling stories and adventures. And I appreciate that it didn’t so much portray an ongoing developing story as much as it simply showed a way of life. I admire the positive vision of how life could be in the future.

    This old form of television really allowed you as a viewer to get to know the characters and to just experience day to day life in their world. I love the more serialized Treks too, but with Discovery, for instance, I don’t really get a feeling of what it’s like to work a normal job on that ship - I get a fantastic adventure story with a beginning, middle and end, but miss out on getting a sense of the normal routines. That’s not meant as a knock on Discovery.

    TNG always leaves me feeling good and hopeful and happy. I say that should count for something. It does with me.
     
  16. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    That’s a good thing Josh. Well said about the TNG viewing experience. As they used to say, it’s nice to visit our old friends and invite them into our homes once a week.
     
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  17. KPmusmag

    KPmusmag Supporting Actor
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    This may sound simple or naive, but I like all the charterers in all the shows (prior to Discovery, which I haven't really watched yet) and the fact is that I simply like spending an hour with them. Obviously, some stories are better than others, but the characters feel like my friends and it is always a pleasure. Silly, I guess, but that's the truth for me.

    Something that has really changed since TOS is the ability to select which episode you want to watch and when. You turned on the TV and you got what you got. I have to remind myself sometimes not to just pick my very favorites. Even though TNG was in the VHS era, who knew that in a few years you would have every episode at your fingertips anytime you want.
     
  18. ScottRE

    ScottRE Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, the era of "what's your favorite episode" is kinda over in this age of long running arcs. I kinda miss that.

    TOS: The Doomsday Machine
    TNG: Best of Both Worlds Part 1
    DS9: The Visitor
    VOY: Timeless
    ENT: Twilight
     
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  19. Blimpoy06

    Blimpoy06 Screenwriter

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    Maurice Hurley had to deal with writer's strikes during the first two seasons of TNG. You can read about how his plans were cut short each year in many of the behind the scenes books and magazines on the show. He actually planned to have mini story arcs that would flow from show to show.

    The outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone that were being destroyed at the end of season one were meant to lead up to the discovery of the Borg. In season two, when Picard is found from the near future in "Time Squared", that was supposed to lead in to a Q story when it was discovered he was behind it. I really admired how hard they were trying to keep the show fresh each week.
     
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  20. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I’m currently still cycling through the VHS set I got in the spring and staying in order, which has been a good chance to see everything and not just my favorites.

    The last time I watched the show on Blu-ray, I put the episode list into my phone’s “notes” app and checked off each episode that I watched and told myself I wouldn’t watch any a second time without seeing everything first. I didn’t entirely stick to that but for the most part it kept me honest.

    Some of my favorites are ones that are generally not loved by most fans, which somehow makes them seem fresher - probably because they’re not rerun as often or talked about as much, so it’s easier for me to forget them until I see them again. Whereas, I’ll never not know Amok Time from start to finish, so it can be a little hard to get lost in the story when I always know what’s coming next.
     
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