Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (8 Viewers)

[FanCollector]

No spoilers about why Pevney chose to leave, though he was never shy about discussing the reasons. But if you look at Trek's four most frequent directors, the third season is clearly a new world. Pevney directed no third season episodes. Vince McEveety and Marc Daniels directed one episode each, and Ralph Senensky directed one episode and was fired during his second. Not to say there weren't good directors in the third year; there were. But it is another reason that the look and feel of the show changed that year.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Lee! I'll be reading the upcoming chapters with anticipation regarding Pevney.I got partway through the section on the second season stories that never were. Interesting that A. E. van Vogt tried so hard so many times to submit work to be turned down by the writing staff. Gotta feel bad for a Gene Roddenberry who so much wanted to do a story with him. And the other young writer who The two Genes tried to mentor and again shot down by Fontana. It was also interesting to read the intense interest the public had for Leonard Nimoy and Nimoy's thoughts about it at the time.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,I receive Emails from StarTrek.com. Those were two images in the Email that I received. I don't receive merchandise from them unless I purchase it.

 

[Nelson Au]

Okay Scott, I thought it might have been images of stuff they are doing deals of the day with.

 

[FanCollector]

It's an interesting good cop/bad cop scenario. If Roddenberry or Coon felt really strongly about a story or a writer, Dorothy Fontana was in no position to veto the idea. But since, as you describe, they allowed her to do so sometimes, they must have been convinced by her arguments to some extent, even if it was just to lower their confidence in the work. At the very least, it shows that Star Trek was a fairly open and collaborative work environment by that point in its run, differences between Roddenberry and Coon notwithstanding. A different picture from the early days of the show, when there were much more serious conflicts behind the scenes.

 

[Ockeghem]

Guys,Have fun with this trivia if you wish. All series and many of the films are represented. It's located at the right.

http://www.startrek.com/upcoming_events?qid=1408#trivia_box

 

[FanCollector]

Got the new Hallmark ornaments today. Nice ones, particularly The Devil in the Dark.Also read this piece, which explains my differences with some of Cushman's ratings interpretations much better than I did: http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-truth-about-star-trek-and-ratings.html?m=1

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee,Thanks for the heads-up on the ornaments. I always forget to get them until the last minute! Interesting the figures from TOS are a continuing release each year with one crew member. Sulu from what looks like Day of the Dove. The image of the Devil In the Dark diorama does look nice! Not a fan of the Vengeance, but I have to collect the ships each year. On a totally separate topic, I watched Rise of the Planet of the Apes last night on blu-ray. Never saw that in the theater. A friend highly recommended it as he was about to see Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. I was turned off by the Tim Burton Mark Wahlberg version, but my friend was right, the prequal was well written and acted and made. So we can forget the Burton version, unless you like it. Why do I bring this up? We'll I am a fan of the Chuck Heston original and several of the original sequel films. And the new film reminded me of Escape and Conquest of the Planet of the Apes with Ricardo Montaban. I might have to give that a watch.I take a look at your link and also the trivia link above that you post Scott.

 

[Nelson Au]

I have worked on a project on top of the usual project this weekend plus a few other activities I need to do and the usual chores, but I was able to find time to read that Star Trek Fact check and the chapter on The Immunity Syndrome. That post makes a really compelling argument that Cushman's interpretation or understanding of the ratings system isn't always right, or at most times incomplete. As I have been reading Cushman's books, I enjoy the story behind the story aspects and the production diary and those are the highlights of each episode chapter. The extras about the fan reactions and the excursions the cast took to promote the series are as equally enjoyable to read. But the sections on the ratings I have to take at face value that Cushman is presenting all the facts. I don't pretend to really understand how the ratings are tabulated and interpreted. It looks good when he presents the numbers as black and white with who is in first second and third places. The article is right that the TV landscape was a much simpler one in the 1960's with three networks and no cable or internet. I've been just accepting Cushman's word. That Fact Check article certainly made a good case to present its thesis.The story behind the story for Immunity Syndrome was interesting as the original story outline emphasized more mankind's place in the universe and that was an interesting idea that was reduced to one line in the final filmed episode. Interesting that because Lucas didn't have time for reading or writing memos, the development of the script is not as well documented. But I got a good picture of it with the earlier memos that Cushman quotes from.The last bit in the previous chapter was hard for me to get through regarding the stories that didn't make it I'm the second season. The segment on He Walks Among Us was slightly more interesting in that it nearly made the cut! The Horta redux story was rightfully killed! But it was sad to read more evidence of the hard work that Coon was putting in and the pushback he was continually getting from Fontana and Justman. I can see that he just had enough wearing him down. I understand now why Pevney didn't return. He is right to stick to his convictions and artistic integrity and equally as he says, the actors are too in their rights to protect the characters. The series is well established now. I can see both sides and felt that it's unfortunate both sides didn't bend a little to allow some opportunities to push the boundaries. I'm being vague in the post in case others have not read this part yet. Well, back onto the days tasks.

 

[Ockeghem]

The story behind the story for Immunity Syndrome was interesting as the original story outline emphasized more mankind's place in the universe and that was an interesting idea that was reduced to one line in the final filmed episode. Interesting that because Lucas didn't have time for reading or writing memos, the development of the script is not as well documented. But I got a good picture of it with the earlier memos that Cushman quotes from.The last bit in the previous chapter was hard for me to get through regarding the stories that didn't make it I'm the second season. The segment on He Walks Among Us was slightly more interesting in that it nearly made the cut! The Horta redux story was rightfully killed! But it was sad to read more evidence of the hard work that Coon was putting in and the pushback he was continually getting from Fontana and Justman. I can see that he just had enough wearing him down.

Nelson,

The part about The Immunity Syndrome is fascinating. I wish more had been written in the actual story with regard to mankind's place in the universe.

The possibility of He Walks Among Us coming to fruition as a story in the 1960s has intrigued me for many years.

As much as I love the work of Fontana (and the work both she and Justman did for TOS), do you think it is possible that one (or perhaps both) may have been slightly full of themselves when it came to the genre? I'm sure that if they were, it is a matter of degree, which is why I wrote 'slightly.' But it may have tempered their decisions with regard to Coon somewhat. This is speculation only, but it isn't something I can easily dismiss given some of what I have read (including the posts from you and Lee with regard to the Cushman book) over the years.

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, the issue with the original story of The Immunity Syndrome is that NBC didn't like the idea that man's destiny is to be an antibody to a giant organism. Plus the idea is that we are simply a tiny little galaxy within the body of a giant organism. My impression of Justman from the memos that Cushman has edited and taken clips from is to tell the story of how each episode developed is that Justman really cared about making each story work, made sense, involved the crew well, etc. Then his primary effort after that was how to film each episode within the limits of time and little money and feasibility! Some memos really cut at Coon. I don't think he meant them to be mean or nasty. He had a sense of humor about them. He really pushed the crew from the art department to the writing staff to work things out with what little they had. And some story ideas just seemed un-makable on the limited TV budget.The same for Fontana, she cared a lot about the stories and the characters. The only thing that's come out of the books from Cushman is how this very young lady working within a male dominated role could be able to be a strong person and push the others around equally. That's a credit to Gene Roddenberry for recognizing her ability and letting her do her job.

 

[FanCollector]

Scott, I'll be interested to see your interpretation once you have read the memo excerpts for yourself. I do get the sense that there were some fundamental disagreements between Coon and the others about what made a good story idea, particularly regarding the reuse of elements. I don't get the feeling that it is related to science fiction per se or to any of their qualifications in the genre. (Harlan Ellison, on the other hand, was very quick to call out Coon on that basis.) Justman had worked on The Outer Limits, but none of them really came from a strong science fiction background, so there wasn't much argument on that basis from either side. But again, you may infer something different from reading the actual correspondence.I was very surprised at NBC's objections to the content of The Immunity Syndrome. Do you think they had paranoid fears of religious objections? It seems rather oversensitive to me, but I suppose I am not trying to sell advertising time on network television...Even though the theme of man's possible function is only left in a line or two, it always struck me as one of the central points the story has to make. So, in the end, I guess they got their message across anyway.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,

Once again, your comments in response to a post of mine are uncanny. It's very, very interesting that you mention Ellison. His name was in my original version of post #10929 above. I took it as well as additional commentary (one line) out when I realized that it sounded a bit too harsh.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, it was surprising NBC nixed that idea. I think it was for religious concerns too.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Hey gang! Popping back into subspace and delighted to see you are all still Trekking along. The Cushman books seem to have made a big splash. I'm currently reading the first one and find it fascinating. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I've been listening to Cushman's interviews promoting the books and one of the most enticing pieces of news is that he is shopping around the idea of doing a mini-series dramatizing the creation and production of the Star Trek series for its 50th Anniversary. That would be fantastic if it come to fruition!!

 

[Ockeghem]

Lou,

It's great to see you popping in! I am really intrigued by what Lee and Nelson have said regarding the Cushman books. I told them both that I will be picking them up once all three volumes are completed. And I love the information you shared. Here's to hoping that it will eventually come to fruition.

 

[Nelson Au]

Hi Lou, welcome back! I had not heard that Cushman interview, that's interesting and sounds like an ambitious project!

 

[FanCollector]

Glad to hear from you, Lou! Welcome back.All the talk here recently about Joseph Pevney moved me to watch the episode of The Name of the Game in which he directed William Shatner about a year and a half after Star Trek ended. I guess they either moved past their differences or decided that working was better. Good work from both of them in any case.

 

[Ockeghem]

So tonight, I see Spock and D'Amato in an episode of Perry Mason. What was interesting was how young my wife and I both thought Spock looked. The odd thing though is that it must have been only a couple of years before TOS since we were watching a season six episode of Perry Mason. I think it was the way he was wearing his hair, and the fact that it was in black and white.

This is probably my favorite dialogue from that episode of Perry Mason:

Kirk: "Doing an episode of Perry Mason should be a geologist's dream, Mr. D'Amato."D'Amato: "The opportunity to act in so classy a series is incredible luck."Kirk: "Yes. If Mr. Spock is correct, you'll have a performance to startle the one and only Hamilton Burger."Bones: "What is it, Jim?"Kirk: "A case even Mason can't explain."

My TOS viewing tonight: This Side of Paradise and A Taste of Armageddon.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Thanks guys. I'll try to find the relevant interview and point out where Cushman mentions his hopes of getting a dramatization of the creation of the series out for the 50th Anniversary.