Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (2 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

I finally had a chance to read that article on Kelley's haircut. It was fascinating as it's timing is coincidental to what I'm reading in the Cushman book. The $35 haircut story is totally new to me. Kelley must have forgotten it as I never heard him mention it before as one tactic that helped him win the role. That was a smart move on Roddenberry's part. $35 sounds amazingly high for 1966!The other part of the article about the very positive press coverage ties into Cushman's book and very much is in line with the articles that Cushman quoted. Though I like the quote about Star Trek being a prestige show for NBC. Another term I don't think I've heard before attributed to Star Trek at the time. The series being called one that is often in second place certainly agrees with Cushman's findings. (Though that other article in the Fact Check site questions Cushman's interpretation of the ratings.) That's a surprise to read in an article that was printed during the series original run. More evidence to debunk the old story that Star Trek had low ratings. I'll try to read part one of the series of articles. This is great that they've unearthed actual articles that were written at the time. It is very telling and cool. Regarding the I, Mudd trivia question, it seems unfair to expect anyone to know the answers without carefully listening to the end scene. So if you are inclined, there's no reason not to watch that section of the episode.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,No problem. I frequently ask trivia questions that require one to view the episode. I may have to do just that with I, Mudd.

 

[Stan]

Most welcome.

BTW - is this on anyone's Christmas list?

Star Trek Phaser Remote Replica

The transit case is a nice touch!

Sometimes I feel like Penny from "The Big Bang Theory". I really enjoy stuff like this, or maybe just tolerate it
But wow, this is the quintessential nerd thread to top all others.

 

[Ockeghem]

"But wow, this is the quintessential nerd thread to top all others."Thank you Stan.

By the way, I don't know if you are a fan of the show Monk or not, but there is a wonderful episode (I think it's a Santa Claus episode) in which Monk has to live for a time (undercover) in something similar to an asylum. Anyway, one of the men he befriends sees the laundry that Monk eventually has built up, and says, "Wow! That's a lot of laundry!" To which Monk responds (straight-faced and with all sincerity), "Thank you."

 

[FanCollector]

Yeah, the articles from the time are fun. Although a lot of them just repeat what the studio or the publicity department told them, so they aren't necessarily "definitive" in any way. The Kelley piece is interesting in that the actual article says nothing about "executives" not wanting Kelley as a hero but the researchers add that layer to their analysis. (Roddenberry always maintained that was true, but Justman and Solow specifically disputed it in their book.) I think it was definitely a prestige show by the end of the first year; apart from Nimoy's Emmy nominations every year, the series got nominated twice for Best Drama in some very competitive years. (The ratings, again, weren't terrible until the end, but check out the number of series that have been canceled after coming in second in their time slots.)Both The Purge and that new Outer Limits episode do sound very familiar! The show has been quite influential, for sure.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

Well, Mudd is told by Stella that he needs constant supervision. He is also asked to do a number of push-ups and (I think) to run so many laps before breakfast. Is this what you were looking for with regard to your question?

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, you got it!The best I could make out was what sounded like 500 push-ups! Maybe she said 100 push-ups. And that he had to run 2 miles in the morning before breakfast! And that he needed constant supervision! Poor Harry. It would be amusing to see if anymore can be made out of the soundtrack but the talking was overlapping so much. Your question is next Scott.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,One of the traditions in our home is to watch an episode of TOS whenever we have ice cream. So today while our children were enjoying that, I put on I, Mudd. They didn't recognize the opening as being from that episode, but they did say that it was 'intense' for TOS.

I have a question that I am working on which I will submit tomorrow.

 

[Nelson Au]

Mmmmm, ice cream! I was listening to Bread and Circuses tonight and in true Lee fashion, began to wonder had Kirk failed to escape and McCoy was forced to work as a doctor on that planet, would he eventually have to resort to modern practices and violate the prime directive and show the other doctors how to do curtain things just from the sheer abundance of patients he'd have to treat. Somehow I think they'd all rather not violate the prime directive.Hopefully I'll complete the A Piece of the Action chapter tonight. Looking forward to the question Scott.By the way Lee, I had to look up The Purge. I missed that one. That sounded like an intense one. I thought it was a take on The Apple but it's referring to Archons.

 

[FanCollector]

McCoy was scheduled to be executed shortly after Kirk, so he probably wouldn't have had to worry about it. But leaving that aside, I feel that McCoy would not have been able to survive for long in an environment like that. That isn't an accusation of weakness; on the contrary, he would simply be unable to participate in a cruel and oppressive system and he would be deemed a threat not worth the trouble. It's like the end of Mirror, Mirror; as bad as it would be for any of them to be left behind (and none of them, even Kirk would last long there), it seems especially awful that McCoy is almost stranded on the I.S.S. Enterprise because of all people, he would be most susceptible there. In Bread and Circuses, it seems that to survive in the Roman Empire, you have to be a Merik, not a McCoy.

 

[FanCollector]

I saw a preview for The Purge, but was reminded of it here by Lou's earlier post, where he mentions Archons.Thanks for the answer to my Apple query earlier, by the way. Made a lot of sense.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I'm still reading Cushman's first book and just finished the section on The Menagerie and am into the chapter dealing with Spockmania. Interesting stuff and the revelation that there were - contrary to what I had been reading for years - many unsold/discarded story ideas. For the most part the reason they remained unsold was pretty obvious.

Watched Man Trap and Where No Man Has Gone Before last night. Both looked gorgeous on BluRay and in Man Trap there was a much more spread out use of the cast. I wish that had carried out more in the rest of the series. Could finally see the green blood and cut on Spock's forehead. I like the extended ruins shots that were added too.

An interesting side effect of being exposed to so much CGI now is how the glowing contact lens that Mitchell and Dehner wear really stand out as something unique. The fadeout shot on Mitchell's glowing eyes and the blackout on everything but his eyes for a beat looks really awesome.

Never realized it before but it looks like the restoration effect did not extend to the end credits - they still look pretty messy in comparison to the rest of an episode's presentation.

I've taken quite a break from Star Trek and am really enjoying my revisit - it's a little bit like rediscovering the show again. And it is still very weird seeing the CBS logo attached to this show.

 

[Ockeghem]

Guys,This isn't a trivia question. After having watched I, Mudd recently, I continue to wonder how the Enterprise crew got back aboard their ship since all of the androids had been immobilized. Apart from it being in the script of course, do you think it was possible due to the androids having been reprogrammed? I can't think of any other plausible explanation. Any ideas?

 

[Nelson Au]

Scott, I think Lee can address your I, Mudd question. I recall we discussed this exact question of how the crew returned before.Lou, great you are revisiting Star Trek! You mentioned that the new CGI effects had the secondary effect of enhancing the glowing eyes of Mitchell and Dehner. If I read that right, you don't mean the eyes were enhanced, but that the original effects still stand out amongst the new effects. I think so too, the original contact lenses really worked and that fade out shot on Mitchell's eyes were truly effective and the same as it was originally in 1965.

 

[FanCollector]

I loved seeing the complete list of assigned-but-unproduced (or even unfinished) stories for the show. Apart from the fun of what ifs, it really shows how (wisely) selective they were. It even got to the point where, in spite of having already assigned many more stories, the production was stuck without scripts at the end of the season and Coon had to knock out The Devil in the Dark and Errand of Mercy himself in a matter of days.Scott, I do vaguely recall Nelson raising that point because I hadn't ever considered it before. I thought that once the androids were reprogrammed they could either have gotten back using whatever method of transport got Norman off the planet in the first place or, if that wasn't feasible, the androids could have built a transporter in their amazing facilities either on their own or under Mr. Scott's direction. (We don't really know how much time passes between the incapacitation of Norman and the final scene of the episode. It could have been days or weeks.)

 

[Nelson Au]

Wow, I finally finished the A Piece of the Action chapter. Justman just hated that story! As did Fontana. I can see why as they argued it didn't have a solid theme or leaned precisely as drama or comedy. I was surprised too that Justman in the end handed it to Coon for pulling it off even though he left the series with the script 3/4 done and agreed the finish afterwards. Komack's recollections are interesting as he knew the cast knew their roles but because of the nature of the script, he had room to work with the cast to try new things, the thing Pevney gave up on. I would never have known Shatner and cast improvised the Fizzbin scene! And it's interesting that the episode benefited a lot with the use of the Paramount back lot for the city streets.I have to admit that I was never a big fan of this episode. I can see more now it's a comedy. But I thought it just wasn't up to the series standards. I'll watch it again with this new information.

 

[Ockeghem]

Guys,

Thanks to both of you for the insights into I, Mudd. Now I'm interested as to how Norman was transported aboard the Enterprise in the first place.

With regard to Cushman, I'm intrigued by how many stories 'this or that' person didn't like, how many scripts weren't 'up to par,' how time restraints hurt 'this or that' script, and how 'Person A' didn't necessarily get along with 'Person B,' etc. And yet, through all of this, I enjoy the episodes immensely anyway, whether they are weak or strong scripts. To paraphrase something Lee said a few days ago, I can pull something positive out of even the weakest of episodes.

Now on to the trivia question. In the past I've asked you to furnish all of the episodes in which we hear the word heaven and hell in TOS. Not that I'm trying to go Dante on you, but can you name all of the episodes in which we hear the word paradise?

 

[FanCollector]

I'll start us with The Return of the Archons and This Side of something or other...A point well taken, Scott. I think one of the real lessons from the books for me is that one way to make every project, both better and worse ones, worthwhile is to pour effort into everything one does. There are indeed a lot of disagreements about story ideas and development illustrated by the memos circulated for each episode. But what strikes me about the whole endeavor is that there isn't one episode where any of the creative players essentially said, "Well, whatever. It's TV and we have some good ones and some bad ones so this will be one of the bad ones." Yes, there are some scripts that needed more work and maybe a couple that didn't need to be produced at all, and as tremendous a fan as I am, I have never denied those shortcomings. But the amount of effort that went into every one is, I would argue, the reason that we are able to find substance in even the worst of them. (Bob Justman once went so far as to suggest that bad shows took MORE effort than good ones. On a good show, he reasoned, things run smoothly because everyone is satisfied. On a bad show, everyone works so hard trying to make it better.) What's also been of great interest to me about reading the contemporary opinions of the creative forces behind the show is finding that I sometimes agree with each of them and sometimes disagree. There isn't one single person behind the scenes whose view of "ideal" Star Trek necessarily matches mine. That makes me think the collaborative process was a big help to the series. Nelson, when we were talking about Star Trek comedies before, I think I first realized (and I don't remember if I said so here, so apologies if I am repeating) that I have always liked them but might have been less delighted as a viewer during the original network run. Three comedy episodes out 79 make for a nice change of pace; three comedy episodes in 9 or 10 weeks make for a disturbing trend. So I see Justman's point in that sense. As for A Piece of the Action itself, it's a chance for Shatner to play comedy again, which is a strength of his, but it's a broader comedy than in Mudd and Tribbles. I think the guest cast is perfectly chosen and also very funny. Philosophically it's one of those second season shows to address the moral imperative of the Prime Directive and I must admit that, silly though it can be, it's refreshing to be able to have one of those stories that doesn't involve genocide, slavery, rape, and other serious bummers.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,

Affirmative. That's two correct answers for you. I have seven answers remaining.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

You mentioned that the new CGI effects had the secondary effect of enhancing the glowing eyes of Mitchell and Dehner. If I read that right, you don't mean the eyes were enhanced, but that the original effects still stand out amongst the new effects. I think so too, the original contact lenses really worked and that fade out shot on Mitchell's eyes were truly effective and the same as it was originally in 1965.

Yes exactly so. The use of those lenses instead of an optical effect or CGI replacement gives them a very unique otherwordly visual signature not seen anywhere else.