Price Drop on the SCD-C222ES? (1 Viewer)

[KonradN]

Keith,

Why is bass managment not neccessary for stereo music?

Lets say you have bookshelfs that go down to 60hz, so without bass management you will be missing all the bass below 60hz and with the management available in sony's sacd players you are forced to let your sub play up to 120hz, which is too high imo.

 

[Alex F.]

Jaleel:

Now you've twisted what I said. Your misstatements never end. When did I say I owned any of the players? I do not. I clicked on this thread to learn about their sonics.

You say you don't put down other people's opinions? You do it endlessly. You repeatedly attack other HTFers for their evaluations based on careful long-term listening. You tell them their opinions about a product's sonics are flawed and inaccurate because they were not made via a DBT. Yet you have the nerve to proffer your opinion after a brief non-DBT evaluation.

You never said the three players sound the same? Are you kidding? You said it several times. It was the point of several of your posts.

Your attempts to steer threads away from their intended purpose are very successful. I congratulate you on your ability to create almost daily disruptions at Home Theater Forum.

 

[Rachael B]

Jaleel, you did the same thing as here in my thread recently where the Pioneer DV-AX10 was being discussed. You made a blanket statement that no player was worth $xxxx. I doubt you took your DVD-A's and SACD's to a dealer and listened to one, I did, about a half dozen times!

I don't know about the others here, but until you want to discuss equipment based on knowledge and not your biased preconceptions, as far as I'm concerned, you are persona non grata. I likely won't be responding to you anytime soon? Au revoir!

 

[David Judah]

...as far as I'm concerned, you are persona non grata. I likely won't be responding to you anytime soon? Au revoir!

Aye, Rachael. Stop feeding the troll.

DJ

 

[JaleelK]

Now you've twisted what I said. Your misstatements never end. When did I say I owned any of the players? I do not. I clicked on this thread to learn about their sonics.

You say you don't put down other people's opinions? You do it endlessly. You repeatedly attack other HTFers for their evaluations based on careful long-term listening. You tell them their opinions about a product's sonics are flawed and inaccurate because they were not made via a DBT. Yet you have the nerve to proffer your opinion after a brief non-DBT evaluation.

You never said the three players sound the same? Are you kidding? You said it several times. It was the point of several of your posts.

Your attempts to steer threads away from their intended purpose are very successful. I congratulate you on your ability to create almost daily disruptions at Home Theater Forum.

If you were doing algebra and someone pointed out to you that you were doing it wrong, would you consider that person to attacking you?

Also, I never said it was a FACT that all the SACD players sound the same.

BTW, you should never allow someone who has a different opinion from you disrupt a forum, every person has a right

to gives his or her opinion free of any personal attacks.

 

[KeithH]

Jaleel said:

you should never allow someone who has a different opinion from you disrupt a forum, every person has a right

to gives his or her opinion free of any personal attacks.

Jaleel, the problem people have is that you have jumped into the middle of discussions regarding the sonic qualities of players many times with the same opinion. You continue to do this. We get it. We understand your point that in your opinion, our observations are invalid because they were not made following a DBT protocol. We also understand your point of view that there is no difference to be heard among various players. Why must you continue to jump into threads making this point? Discussions about players go along fine until you jump in with the same points you have made 1000 times over. When you continue to steer discussions off the topic and discount everything that those of us with real-world, firsthand experience have to say, that is disrespectful.

Let's talk about personal attacks. You made a statement to the effect that those of us who buy Sony ES products are buying salesmen snake oil and are wasting money. You intimated that we are buying for prestige and to have a pretty component on the rack. Is that not an attack? Among many things, you are a hypocrite. Those statements clearly attacked those of us who own Sony ES components. You insulted our intelligence. What's more, you made those statements and then made it clear that you have very little experience with the ES components in question. So, you have attacked people here with comments that have no foundation.

You should give serious thought to why you are here and what it is you are trying to accomplish on this site. You are not going to convince me, and probably some others here, that you are trying to make a valid contribution. All you are doing is stirring the pot. You are an instigator. This thread and many others before it didn't need that. So, yes, you are a disruption.

 

[Dzung Pham]

Jaleel, there is nothing wrong with your philosophy or opinion. Actually, there are times when I agree with you. However, you have a tendency to turn every thread you post in into a debate on double-blind testing, even when it is off topic.

Take a look at the title of this thread and the first post. This thread was about the price drop in one of the Sony SACD players. The thread was not asking, "Is there a difference between SACD players?" Yet, four pages later, look what the thread has turned into. It is no longer related to the original topic.

If you were doing algebra and someone pointed out to you that you were doing it wrong, would you consider that person to attacking you?

You're comparing your preaching to teaching algebra? You have no proof that someone can not hear a difference, just the same as they have no proof that they can (without a DBT). You should know that a DBT takes time and resources so just let people enjoy themselves.

 

[JaleelK]

I think some people don't really know what accurate bass sounds like with music. They're used to boomy subs in cars and they crank their subs at home until they get that bloated, boomy sound in the 40-60 Hz range when they watch DVDs & listen to CD's and mistake it for good quality bass. Then they listen to a DVD-A or SACD and cry, "Where's all the bass?"

I know what bass real bass is, I know what boomy bass sound like as well. Quite honestly if you are listening to rap or Hip Hop that type music is very bass heavy, but the music I like is jazz, contemporary(also called smooth jazz)and traditional jazz, in that type of music the bass is an important to that genre and to have it missing is compro-

mising the sound. I think some of you are making excuses for major flaws and compromised with the current SACD players, I think the next generation of SACD players will address these flaws, hopefully they will.

 

[JaleelK]

You're comparing your preaching to teaching algebra? You have no proof that someone can not hear a difference, just the same as they have no proof that they can (without a DBT). You should know that a DBT takes time and resources so just let people enjoy themselves.

I'm not comparing my teaching to algebra, I'm not teaching, I was making an example, I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not insulting them by telling them that you cannot reliably say that their are difference between two audio components without the use of Double Blind Level matched, preferably quick swith listening test. Anyway, DBT are not designed to prove a negative, so your statement "You have no proof that someone can not hear a difference, just the same as they have no proof that they can (without a DBT)" is not applicable. If anyone make a claim that player A sounds better than player B, my question is how did a person reach that conclusion? If they reached that conclusion any way other double blind and level matched, those conclusions are not reliable, DBT's are the AES standard for comparing audio components.

 

[David Head]

Keith,

Have you ever listened to the Sony S9000ES SACD/DVD player? I wondered how it compared to the 222ES and/or 555ES.

David

 

[Dzung Pham]

Jaleel, I never said a DBT would prove a negative, I said "you have no proof that someone can not hear a difference."

Where's that forum? I heard that placing Tarot cards on you CD player will make it sound better.

Honestly, you're telling me that you don't think you're insulting anybody by this kind of statement?

 

[Rachael B]

David, I have the 9000ES and 555ES. For stereo SACD, I think the 9000ES is pretty good, not quite as good as the 555 but close. For CD I think it's a notch or two down but certainly above average. What disappointed me about the 9000ES is the progressive video performance. It's just not as good as my RP91. I think the interlaced video is excellent though. I put it on my analog bedroom TV where it performs very well. Oh, the 9000ES won't play CD-R's and the 555 will. I suppose all the stand-alone SACD players play CD-R...? For the $799 that many places are selling the 9000ES for lately, it' a relative bargain if it fits your needs. Some of my multi-channel SACD's sound better in stereo anyway. For the time being SACD is a better stereo that multi-channel format as far as I'm concerned. I'm perfectly willing to change my mind about that though. I'm no two channel zealot or defender. Best wishes!

 

[Parker Clack]

Jaleel:

You are insulting the people of this thread by making a blanket statement that they are wasting their money on something that they haven't done a scientific test on to prove they are hearing a difference. Yet in the same statement you say you don't hear a difference so therefore their isn't one and it shouldn't be bought.

So the bottom line is in their opinions these units respresent a good value for their money and to them they sound superior in their own environments.

It is insulting to them that you then come into these threads, yes you do this in a lot of different threads, offer your non scientific opinions and expect others to prove you wrong with scientific proof.

Why in the world do you want to participate in these threads? People tell you that you are insulting them and you say you are not and again you want proof that you are. When someone tells you that you are why do you argue with them that you are not?

What the members of these threads are trying to tell you is that you are stuck on your opinion, that nothing that anyone says to you is going to change your mind and that everyone should agree with you or they are wrong. You are not willing to learn anything new. No you do not come right out and say this. You veil it in general comments being careful not to point out a single person.

In the future, if I were you, I would appreciate what others are saying to me in a thread and take the hint that my opinions are not wanted or needed.

If you cannot refrain from these types of posts I would suggest that you find another forum to post on.

Parker

 

[David Head]

Rachael,
You're a wealth of knowledge, as usual!
Thanks for the comparisons. I'm not really interested in the 9000ES, but I have heard it playing a Super Audio CD and wondered how it would compare to the two units. It was my first chance to listen to SACD and I was VERY impressed with the sound. I also loved the sound of redbook CDs on the 9000ES, so the fact that the 555ES sounds even better has me sold.
Any suggestions on how to handle a DVD-A and SACD player with only one 5.1 input on my receiver?
David

 

[KeithH]

David, I am glad that Rachael jumped in to answer your question. Yes, she is a wealth of information, and I have learned a lot from her since joining this forum two years ago. I have not done a firsthand comparison between the 'S9000ES and 'C222ES or 'C555ES. I have listened to the 'S9000ES in stores many times, just not side-by-side with the multi-channel changers. My brother also has the 'S9000ES, and I can say that I have always been impressed with it. I obviously can't say where it rates versus other SACD players, but I have never heard anything displeasing from it. The 'S9000ES is a wonderful component (for video too), especially when you consider that Tweeter stores are now selling it for $800. If you have a Tweeter store in your area, definitely check it out. Of course, the decision is made tougher by the fact that one can buy the 'C222ES and 'C555ES for $380 and $600, respectively, from J&R Music World. Just remember that the 'S9000ES only plays stereo SACDs.

 

[KeithH]

David asked:

Any suggestions on how to handle a DVD-A and SACD player with only one 5.1 input on my receiver?

I faced this issue myself when I bought the 'C555ES a few months ago. I bought two Radio Shack A/V switch boxes for $15 each to handle multi-channel DVD-Audio and SACD. The part number for the A/V switch box is 15-1952. It has been said by some here that Radio Shack discontinued this item a couple of months ago, but you still may be able to find it at a local store. I don't see it being a huge seller. Anyway, search this message board for '15-1952' to see posts concerning the implementation of these switch boxes. I have observed no sound degradation using them.

 

[David Head]

Thanks Keith! I found your post that explained the setup with the two RS A/V switch boxes. That's a great and simple solution to the problem. BTW, the RS website still lists the boxes for same online or in the stores. I'm going to check my local stores first. Thanks again for the tip.

David

 

[Alex F.]

Niles (nilesaudio.com) makes a plethora of very high-quality switch boxes, including at least two line-level stereo boxes. I am not aware, though, of any Niles boxes that can switch more than two channels at a time. Maybe a call to them might yield a future product.

Edit: After posting, I saw you found that the RS boxes are still available. Never mind!

Whew, what a pleasure to have this thread back on track.

 

[GeorgeC]

Keith, David,

I bought these boxes from Radio Shack about a week ago. I had to explain to them what they were, as they did not have them on display. They did, however, keep them in stock in the back. And they were $14.99.

They work fine, but I curse the recording industry and the consumer electronic companies every time I think we have to buy 18 quality cables just to use this!

 

[KeithH]

David,

I was glad to help. Glad to hear that the switch boxes are still available. If you are able to find them, let us know how they work out for you.

George,

I agree that it is somewhat frustrating that we can't use digital outputs for DVD-Audio and SACD, but at least the switch boxes are cheap.