Predator 3D coming to Blu-ray in December (2 Viewers)

[DVDvision]

UHE looks good, if you don't mind Predator looking like Avatar.

It as way more detail than the original Blu release in mpeg2, (what people percieve as grain in there is just a wall of noise hiding the lack of detail and giving it some kind of texture).

UHE would look the best if someone just added some artificial grain to it.

 

[Kevin EK]

I'm a happy owner of the 2-disc DVD of Predator, with all the special features. Have not bought the title on Blu, and am not seeing a reason to do so at this point. This falls along the lines of the equally unnecessary Top Gun conversion.

To be clear, I realize that it's possible to artificially add some depth to these movies by throwing on a 3D conversion 30 years after the fact. The reality is that the movies were not lit or shot for 3D, and what you're seeing is a completely artificial effect. Sometimes, you can get some interesting results. But I tend to go with the idea of staying with the original mode of presentation until someone can show me something truly awe-inspiring.

 

[Persianimmortal]

UHE would look the best if someone just added some artificial grain to it.

Except that it's not just the grain that's been scrubbed. The movie has also had its color changed and has been contrast boosted. It's also incorrect to say it has more detail; detail has been removed, resulting in very prominent waxiness. There are a multitude of image quality comparisons which show this - not sure if we really need to re-open this can of worms again:



The original 2008 edition of Predator, while not superb, is miles ahead of any of the other releases, and is the most faithful representation of the movie. It's better than the DVD, and likely to remain the best available version until Fox - who for some bizarre reason seem not to want to do this popular film justice - releases a correct version. Possibly by the time 4K rolls around.

It's still available on Amazon for $10.16:
http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Blu-ray-Arnold-Schwarzenegger/dp/B0012GVKW8/

 

[Nelson Au]

Wow, I found this thread earlier today. So this evening I finally decided to take a look at the 2008 blu ray for the first time. I was about set to buy the Hunter Edition when it was released, but the reviews and comments on the HTF convinced me to skip it and go for the 2008.I have the two earlier DVD editions which I'd like to screen too to compare. I actually ended up watching the whole 2008 blu ray tonight not having seen the film in about 4 years. My impression is the 2008 disc looks quite good! I watched on a 65" plasma.When I watched it, saw all the grain and shots with more grain and shots with less grain. I came to the conclusion that this film may have been a real challenge to film. It looks like the film was pushed beyond the limits during processing. The dark jungle shots may have required more adjustments in the lab to get the image brighter, so more grain was introduced. Yet some brighter scenes like the attack on the bad guys had lots of sunlight that looked okay. After Shane Black and Jessie Ventura's characters are killed, there's a shot into the forest in the distance that looked very grainy. And to me, it looked like film pushed during processing to get the far off vegetation to show better. If the filming conditions were really humid, would that affect the film too? I recall the challenge to restore The African Queen was partly due to film elements that weren't too great because the filming locations affected the negatives during filming. So my guess is Predator looks like it did in theaters. I remember seeing films in the theater with that look too. It's a shame a small group of people complained about the grain to influence the studio to scrub it. I am curious to check out this new disc. If it contains the 2D UHE blu ray too, then I could see what all the fuss is. But honestly, the 2008 disc looks okay. It's very watchable. And I was into the movie. Hadn't seen the young Arnold in a while! His biceps look much more developed then in the later T2. The movie holds up very well.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm going to watch this BD today so I could settle this issue for me once and for all. By the way, who says the color was right in the first BD release? Also, the new screen cap looks better to my tired eyes than the older one. However, in general, I don't place much value on screen caps in general.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Rather than getting into this debate once again, I'll just quote Robert Harris' opinion on the Ultimate Hunter Edition (which is what the 2D version in this set is, and what the 3D version seems to be based on):

Whatever post facility created this master should be tarred, feathered and rode out of town on a log.

'Nuff said.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Rather than getting into this debate once again, I'll just quote Robert Harris' opinion on the Ultimate Hunter Edition (which is what the 2D version in this set is, and what the 3D version seems to be based on):'Nuff said.

There is no debate for me, whatever my eyes show me is my reality despite what RAH has to say on the matter. I can only view any video presentation through my eyes with knowledge or lack of.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I sat down this evening and watched the 3-D version and I must say it was pretty good for a converted presentation. No doubt, DNR was applied here, but I was concentrating on the 3-D aspect so it never took me out of the film. Since, I own all three BD releases, one day when I have nothing better to do, I might do a comparison between the three releases.

 

[bgart13]

How do you feel about the added cgi to the 3D version?

 

[Robert Crawford]

How do you feel about the added cgi to the 3D version?

Didn't notice it.

 

[Nelson Au]

Having just seen the 2008 blu ray Monday night, I took a quick look at the last DVD version a few hours ago. From what I can see, the DVD source is the same as the blu ray. The blu ray's increased resolution no doubt in 2008 was a shock to those used to the DVD, so they were not used to seeing all that grain on screen. The really grainy scenes were the same between the blu ray and DVD, I thought. I'm really curious to see this new scrubbed version, so I'll pick it up.

 

[Dave H]

I own both the 2008 and the UHE. I'm not real happy with either of them. I was considering the 3D release, but decided to give it a pass.

I really don't understand the praise of the 2008 release. It's from an old telecine transfer that was done for the DVD years back. All Fox did was port this over for Blu-ray. A lot of people mistakenly believe what they are seeing is luscious film grain, but it's mostly just video noise in part from the older scanning and from poor MPEG-2 compression. When you look at better transfers from that era with similar 35mm film and zoom in on shots, you can see that real film grain looks different. The noise gets so heavy at times it almost seems like it interferes with seeing detail.

It goes without saying the UHE release is DNR'd too much (and a few scenes are really bad) and it sometimes seems the gamma is too boosted in some scenes.

Which do I prefer? Tough call. I can only hope one day a really proper transfer is done.

 

[Nelson Au]

Dave, not pretending to know all there is about the various transfers of this movie or anything about the mechanics of film transfer to video.That said, from what I saw of the 2008 blu ray and earlier DVD set from 2004, it certainly gave me the impression of film grain. I base that on very basic knowledge, if not even that, of what film images look like if they are underexposed and pushed a little in the lab. Because the well lit scenes in sunlight looked great, other shots in the forest looked grainy.Your point that it's digital noise from the earlier, older compression transferring process is well taken. I have the 1998 DVD too and I haven't played that one in a while to see how that looks. Will probably do that. From what I saw, the 2004 DVD and 2008 blu ray look the same, except the blu ray is higher resolution, as you said.

 

[cineMANIAC]

I can only hope one day a really proper transfer is done.

I just don't see it happening. This 3D reissue makes it, what, the 4th release in 10 years? I think Fox is done with this title. If they make another Predator film there will almost certainly be another repackaging but I don't see them creating a new master. They just don't have a clue.

 

[Dave H]

Dave, not pretending to know all there is about the various transfers of this movie or anything about the mechanics of film transfer to video.That said, from what I saw of the 2008 blu ray and earlier DVD set from 2004, it certainly gave me the impression of film grain. I base that on very basic knowledge, if not even that, of what film images look like if they are underexposed and pushed a little in the lab. Because the well lit scenes in sunlight looked great, other shots in the forest looked grainy.Your point that it's digital noise from the earlier, older compression transferring process is well taken. I have the 1998 DVD too and I haven't played that one in a while to see how that looks. Will probably do that.From what I saw, the 2004 DVD and 2008 blu ray look the same, except the blu ray is higher resolution, as you said.

Nelson,

All of these earlier MPEG-2 Blu-rays are soft and very 'grainy' looking. We heard for years that Terminator was a very soft, very grainy movie that nothing could be done about it. Well, it was properly remastered and what happened? It became rather impressive looking and the real film grain it has is rather small and tight - nicely textured. Natural looking. The original Terminator release has the same blocky, digital looking grain of Predator 2008, as well as other MPEG-2 titles. Silence of the Lambs which I watched fairly recently as the same look. Rocky another one (which I bet you will have more natural looking grain on the upcoming 4K remastered release). Robocop yet another. We also heard the same for original MPEG-2 Total Recall Blu. "It's a very soft and grainy movie - just the way it is! Deal with it!" The remastered Blu showed otherwise. Real film grain looks nothing like this and in both Total Recall and Terminator - if you compare the screenshots zoomed in on both the original and remastered shots, you'll see what I mean. The "grain" looks completely different in both - and the grain on the original discs looks like what is seen on the 2008 Predator.

If you click and zoom the images above that immortal posted, that digitized blocky noise-grain look on the 2008 disc does not look like film or film grain at all. Is it preferable to the DNR'd UHE? It's up to you to decide for yourself.

 

[Dave H]

I just don't see it happening. This 3D reissue makes it, what, the 4th release in 10 years? I think Fox is done with this title. If they make another Predator film there will almost certainly be another repackaging but I don't see them creating a new master. They just don't have a clue.

Predator is one of those Arnold catalog titles that obviously sells. Fox may decide to go to the well yet one more time and it would basically take a new transfer to sell it yet again. Also, with 4K around the corner and since it's speculated Blu-ray will announce a 4K format at some point relatively soon, a 4K transfer could be done for it.

 

[Douglas R]

I don't know what evidence there is for people to say PREDATOR was soft and grainy on theatrical release. The film had a strong impact when I saw it and I'm sure a soft grainy image would have registered on me. As it is, my recollection is that the film - in 70mm - looked exceptionally good - clear and sharp.

 

[Jari K]

2008 transfer is too old and the 2010 transfer is too "clean". Fox needs to go back to the original negatives and remaster this film at some point.In the meantime, the 3D version works for me. I've seen the film about zillion times already in 2D. And yes, from the "inferior" sources like VHS, tv and DVD.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Dave for your insight.

I have the remastered Terminator and I haven't watched it yet. And i was hoping Total Recall would get a blu ray transfer. I'll have to grab that too.

 

[Nelson Au]

By the way, not meaning to derail the topic, but how is the current blu ray of Predator 2?