Pioneer DV-45A SACD/DVD-A

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Blaine_M, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Blaine_M

    Blaine_M Second Unit

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    Anyone know what the crossover points are for SACD and DVD-A on this unit? I spent 10 minutes on the phone with 1800pioneer and they had no clue.
     
  2. Nathan Stohler

    Nathan Stohler Second Unit

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    Blaine,

    You might check out this thread.

    It's rather long, and I didn't read much past the first page, but it sounds like the bass management does not even work for DVD-A and the crossover for SACD might be 100 Hz, but that's just what I got out of skimming the thread.

    If you are patient, you might get some useful information from that thread, or maybe someone who hs experience with this player can help and post here.

    --Nathan
     
  3. Blaine_M

    Blaine_M Second Unit

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    Reads to me like it doesn't have any low end management at all. Surely it has some pre-set crossover point?
     
  4. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    It does have some BM, but there are some quirks. IIRC, the turnover point is 100 Hz, but it does not work correctly with certain DVD-A titles, such as Chesky 4.0 stuff.

    SACD and DD/DTS do appear to work correctly.

    I personally opted to go with an ICBM, but at this point, there are other uni-players, such as the Denon 2200 that not only do BM correctly for all formats, but also have better video sections.

    A 2200 would probably be about the same money or less than a 45A and an ICBM, so unless the 45A were really cheap, I would go with the Denon.

    That said, with an ICBM, I find the 45a to be a fabulous hi-rez player.

    BGL
     
  5. Blaine_M

    Blaine_M Second Unit

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    I just read up some info about the ICBM, that thing looks awesome, exactly what I would need. Only problem is that and the SACD player together will still run about $600 if I were to get the 45A.
     
  6. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Right. That's why, were I to be doing it today and not 18 months ago, I would seriously consider the Denon 2200.

    I actually have the 45A/ICBM for audio only, and bought a Denon 1600 (one of the top rated video players at the Secrets shoot-out) for video only (yes, I am a bit of a geek for this stuff!).

    BGL
     
  7. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

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    Brian, in your opinion, how much better is the 1600 on video over the 45A? Did you do a A/B test? Can you PM me if you know of a source for the 1600?

    So many questions.... [​IMG]
     
  8. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Charles,

    I did do a limited A/B between the two players. On well authored stuff (I used Monsters, Inc. for most of the testing), the difference is subtle. The 1600 may be a bit sharper, but the difference was very subtle.

    While the 45A is said to have the chroma bug, I don't see it on my display (and I spent weeks testing and trying to learn how to spot it, all while corresponding with Don Munsil at Secrets, who was very, very helpful in coaching me).

    I used several of the scenes that are said to show it in my test, and really, if there is a difference between the two relating to the CUE, its not readily apparent on my display with my eyeballs.

    So I would not throw the 45A in the dust bin just because it is said to the CUE.

    Where the 1600 does mop the floor with the 45A is on titles that are incorrectly flagged. One in particular is 101 Dalmatians II (this is animated). The 45a has fits with that, combing severely. The 1600 just throws up a beautiful, clean image.

    Now, having said all that, on occasion, I always thought that the 45A at times was a bit soft, and until I got the 1600, assumed that was all due to disc authoring. However, the 1600 never seems to do that, and is consistently sharp and clean. This leads me to think that, as they tell you in Secrets, many discs do have authoring problems, and flag readers (the 45a is a flag reader while the 1600 is a cadence machine) will simply stumble on those titles.

    Lastly, I unfortunately don't know where you might find a 1600 other than Ebay. I grabbed mine in a semi panic last fall when Crutchfields got their last shipment. At that time, the Panny RP82 was long out of production, and the 1600 was the only game in town WRT moderately priced players with top-shelf video performance.

    I have not looked at the 2200 yet, but it did do well at Secrets, and does get right the BM issues that most players get wrong.

    That would be on my list of I was looking for a moderately priced player today.

    BGL
     
  9. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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    The 45a certainly *does* have DVD-A bass management (and SACD BM too). All the info requested is in that thread.
    Specifically

    crossover and time alignment info:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...12#post1640912

    Basically, the crossover pt for all formats is 100 Hz.
    The slope is different (shallower, -6dB/octave) for SACD versus other formats (-12 dB/octave). Time alignment works for all formats except SACD.

    bass management of various formats:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ps#post1458749

    Basically, the 45A can direct bass from any channel to the .1 channel for all formats tested except DVD.A 4.0 PPCM. (DVD-A 4.0 LPCM worked). But the 45A does not redirect .1 channel info to other channels when SACD or DVD-A formats are the source. This is a potential problem only for those whose setups do not include a subwoofer.
     
  10. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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    At this point I would only consider a setup that allows passing the hirez signal digitally to the receiver. There;s no excuse for this six-cable nonsense and disparate BM/TA settings for different formats that are STILL the main feature of uni-players.
     
  11. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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    does toggling Pure Cinema to on/off/auto makes difference?
     
  12. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Good to see you are still trolling the 45a threads Steve[​IMG]

    Yes, IIRC, it did take care of the combing but at the expense of severe jaggies.

    I had some correspondence with Don Munsil (one of the Secrets Shoot Out Authors) on the subject of toggling pure Cinema on and off for various mis-flagged discs, and he said it really would not be a good solution...and the reasons why exceeded my knowledge of DVD players and deinterlacing!

    BGL
     

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