Pepper Sprayed at the Movies (1 Viewer)

[Sami Kallio]

Yes, a threat is a threat. Nothing less but also nothing more. An act of violence is an act of violence. In this case which person committed the act of violence? You do not teach your kid to hit the other kid who is running his/her mouth, do you?

 

[Nathan*W]

Both the patron and the officer did. The patron as an act of aggression, and the officer in a defensive gesture.

 

[Sami Kallio]

Only according to the officer, witnesses said the opposite.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well the usher said the girl hit the cop with her soda. I understand that he MIGHT not be neutral, but its not just the cop's word vs everybody else.

The "neutral" witness said she merely asked why he had sprayed her boyfriend.

Someone is lying.

Also remember that the spraying took place outside the theater in the hall/lobby area. The witnesses to the spraying did not see the intital incident and the witness in the theater did not see what happened once they left the theater.

 

[Mike Graham]

This incident is starting to sound like the plot of Rashomon. Where did the cell phone end up ?

 

[Nathan*W]

Sami, I was simply responding when you said, When this is just not the case. The law says that a threat of violence implies intent to do harm, and consequently becomes more than the sum of its parts. (ie. it's more than just words)

In Florida, it's a Third Degree Felony Battery for the soda-throwing woman, and a First Degree Misdemeanor Assault for the "ass-kicker" boyfriend.

Title XLVI Crimes, Chapter 784, Code 784.07

 

[Rob Gardiner]

I see what you are getting at: you are implying that they made threats while in the theater, then the cop dragged them into the lobby and let loose with the spray. If that is the case, then his actions are STILL unjustified. If you must respond to a threat, you do it immediately; if you have time to drag the people into the next room, then the threat must not have been serious to begin with. Or make that "alleged threat".

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Nathan,

1) Your link didn't work.

2) Does the law concerning Assault & Battery of a Law Enforcement Officer apply when the officer is off duty and serving in the capacity of private security?



Also consider that every human being, cop or otherwise, has a responsibility to evaluate any threat made towards them. One can tell from a person's tone of voice, posture, attitude, ability to actually carry out the threat, and a number of other factors whether a threat is real or not. In WA, for a statement to be a "threat", the person threatened must have a reasonable belief that the threat will be carried out. If a 98 pound weakling walks up to you, jumping up and down like a clown, and says in a falsetto voice, "I'm gonna beat the crap out of you, nyah nyah" then runs away, you would obviously assume that is not a real threat.

The only way we will ever know what really went on here would be for someone to perform detailed interviews of all the participants and witnesses. Analyzing news reports is like watching RASHOMON. I'm just trying to apply logic as best I can: who has the least motivation to lie? What is a reasonable explanation for these events? I'm just as pissed off as anybody else here about cell phone use in the movie theater. But cell phones in the theater are a rude and obnoxious distraction; unwarranted pepper spray is much more hideous, in my opinion.

 

[Diallo B]

this thread is still going, huh. after all of these opinions and thoughts they still should have been maced. lol. call it an over reaction if you want but i'm glad someone will think 8 times before they get on the phone during a movie again.

i need to buy me some mace. but i am not afraid to embarass the hell out of someone for getting on the phone during a movie. that is one of my biggest pet peeves. that and chair kicking.

mace them all!!!

 

[Malcolm R]

Perhaps if you're threatened on a regular basis, but not all of us have such a prestigious library of experience to call upon to evaluate every nuance of a threat.

Plus, if the person is serious, I doubt you'll have the time necessary to work up such a detailed psychological profile before you're in a world of hurt.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

I doubt the rent-a-cop had time to drag the couple into the next room either, but that's the prevailing theory from the "cop did the right thing" crowd.

And I'm not talking about "working up a detailed psychological profile". I'm talking about applying COMMON SENSE. Then again, rent-a-cops aren't exactly known for having, much less applying, common sense.

 

[Nathan*W]

I can only answer that for Virginia, but I am confident it's the same for Florida, where this event took place:

A LEO has the authority to act at any time on or off duty to stop felonies and misdemeanors committed in their presence. So an officer in uniform (but off duty, being paid to be there by the theater) has the same protections and arrest powers as if they were on duty in their cuiser, writing a traffic ticket.

 

[Malcolm R]

Physical violence is no joking matter and, yes, I would take any such threat seriously. This is not a subject for humor and anyone who would make such a "joke" deserves to be maced for that alone. Then, perhaps in the future the person will engage their brain before making similar "jokes."

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Malcolm,

I refer you to the film 12 Angry Men:


See how far that argument goes in the courtroom the next time someone retaliates with pepper spray in response to an obviously empty threat.


Nathan,

Thanks for the info.

However, using a cellphone in a theater (while rude and obnoxious) is neither a misdemeanor nor a felony, to my knowledge.

 

[Malcolm R]

It's on the shelf, but not yet watched.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Malcolm,

Please accept my apologies for the minor spoiler above. I've tagged it now for the benefit of others who haven't seen the movie.

I think getting pepper sprayed for an untagged spoiler is too severe punishment, but I will gladly submit to a wedgie.

 

[Malcolm R]

It'll have to be an Atomic Wedgie (see, I can compromise and be lenient).

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Here's a solution to the problem of cell phone use at the movies:

Display an announcement on the screen before the film begins (adapted from the classic bumper sticker):

 

[Nathan*W]

I never said it was.

Telling a cop you're going to "kick his ass" is a 1st degree misdemeanor assault, and the soda dump is a 3rd degree felony.

 

[Paul Cn]

I can't believe that people are defending this woman. Let me repeat what Seth said so ELOQUENTLY.


I paid $10 to watch a movie not to listen to people talk on the cellphone. If I can, I would personally pepper spray anyone who is this discourteous to other people watching a film.