Paradigm with sub or Axiom without?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by NileDB, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. NileDB

    NileDB Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks to everyone here for helping thus far in my quest for a HT set up. The vast knowledge and experience here is indispensible.
    OK, the boss has set my speaker budget at $900 US. I can get a Paradigm Titan, CC-170, cinema ADP, PDR-10 set up for that amount. At the same time, I can't discount the numerous accolades for the Axioms that I have read. Problem is, I can't get a full 5.1 set up from Axiom with this budget.
    Do I get the full Paradigm 5.1 system or get the M2i/M3ti, QS4 and 100 series center now from Axiom and save for a sub?
    I read that the Axioms are more comparable to Paradigm's studio series which is far up the chain from the performance line. From what I gather, the Axioms are more speaker for the money with a comparable sound. Is this correct?
     
  2. JackHC

    JackHC Auditioning

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd get the best now. You can always add more Axiom units later. Much depends on the size of the room. You could start with m50's for $620 and v100 center for $220 for a total of $840. Any current speakers you could temp use for surrounds. As money makes it possible in the future, get a pair of surrounds (QS4) for $310 and the EP175 sub for $500.
     
  3. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,588
    Likes Received:
    0


    So true. Actually, Circus City sells "Dual" branded speakers for around $20 - 25 each. Would be OK as interim surrounds.

    Also, don't overlook the used market. I saw a pair of Axiom M3Ti speakers (Rosewood finish) @ Audiogon for $125.00 recently.
     
  4. Bhavesh

    Bhavesh Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    NileDB,
    Be sure to check out the Axiom Factory Outlet store. Most people can't find any blemishes on products from there-check out their BB for verification.
    So you can knock 10% off the existing prices.

    Many Axiom owners opt for the VP150, although the VP100 is still a great speaker. Personally I went with a single M22 as a center channel due to the inherently flawed nature of the horizontal MTM design.

    I'm not sure how well the M3 would blend with the VP100 for HT as they have different size woofers.
    In your case I would go with M22's, VP100 and QS4's from Factory outlet = $837.

    After my successful first DIY sub attempt I will never again buy a readymade sub. If you have an existing spare amplifier you can easily build a great passive sub for
     
  5. NileDB

    NileDB Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, all. My additional problem lies in the fact that the Wife insists on putting everything into an entertainment center. I know. It seems that all "good" bookshelves these days are rear-ported which causes a problem. I'm looking at filling the shelf/cabinet with foam as a possible remedy. Does this really solve the problem?
     
  6. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0


    Probably not—but it depends on the enclosures where the speakers go. My advice would be to get either a front-ported or an acoustic-suspension design.

    One thing that is essential with rear ported speakers is for them to not be placed against or very close, to a rear wall. In the case of an entertainment center, the back of the center may be thought of as a rear wall. So you should have some distance between the back of your speakers and the rear of the entertainment center.

    It will depend on the size of the rear ports, but 9” is reasonable for ports of about 3” in circumference. If the ports are smaller, you won’t need so much room—larger and you should plan for more.

    Finally you should not have the speakers placed too tightly on the sides of an enclosure.

    In the end though, you may find that you are well pleased with your situation. Every room environment is different and speakers too have different characteristics that require different solutions. Plus it is how you feel about the sound, not some abstract, theoretical discussion.
     
  7. JamieS

    JamieS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    0


    In my opinion this is a bit of a killer. Unless this is one big azz entertainment enter its like taking all your speakers and putting them in a box. Especially the cneter which is often on top of the TV. My buddy's wife was like this but he managed to work a compromise. Small speakers mounted on stands . During everyday living the stands and the speakers are moved to the side or even slightly behind the fron t of the cabinet. When its time for moves etc we had found the best spot for them and marked it with a dot of nail polish (almost too small to see unless you really look). He'd line the speakers up and ta da no speakers in the way during the day and much better sound for DVD. Most entertainment centers are only a few feet wide so the speakers end up being way to close together.

    Is there any chance of getting your own room for this stuff or moving in the near future? If I was 100% constrained to in the cabinet and will be for a while I might make some different choices.

    What about a sattilite system like Energy take 5 or something? I'm not a fan of small sats but they might just sound BETTER in that enclosed cabinet than bigger speakers.

    the axioms probly will sound better but you are going to lose some of it becuse of the cabinet issue. Also many people feel that a sub is key to HT performance. Especailly with bookshelf sized speakers. I agree.

    If you can't move the speakers out of the cabinet and feel you will be stuck with this for a while I would reccomend you look at buying a package of 5 Paradigm Atoms ( I think they will sell them single not sure). and using one for the center rather than the CC170. That would leave you $50 for which you could likley get a better sub than a PDR 10 (like an HSU).
     
  8. NileDB

    NileDB Extra

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lew, any suggestions for acoustic suspensions or front porteds in this range?
    Jamie, the center will be huge, it's one that houses my 57 inch Hitachi. I was inclined to maybe lean towards the Atoms for fronts and have enough money (maybe) for a sub. Will the Atoms require less space than the Titans? Due Atoms compare to M2i's?
     
  9. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    I’m pretty sure that there are some Infinity models that are front-ported. I’ve never auditioned them, however. Many of the JBL speakers are front ported.

    There are several bookshelf models (Polk makes some, for example—but there are many, many others) that, although they are vented at the rear, are designed to be wall mounted. I presume (without really knowing) that rear ported speakers of this type are designed to placed close to a wall. It sill might be a problem in an enclosure, but it is something to think about.

    There are some mass-market acoustic suspension speakers from manufactures like KLH, which you could consider.

    Another option might be to look at bookshelves that are attractive enough that the will pass the WAF test. The Rocket ELT series springs to mind—very nice looking indeed.

    There are some very fine subwoofers that make use of the acoustic suspension principles: the Adire Rava ($400) and the Rocket UFW-10 ($600) come immediately to mind. And many, many front-ported subs.

    And finally you might find a pair of AR3s—they are only 50 or so years old and (in my mind) produced a revolution for sound in a bookshelf, back in the day. [​IMG]
     
  10. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Rocket ELT package meets your needs, excpet that the speakers are rear-ported.

    If you call and talk with Sean, Steve or Greg at AV123, they can best advise you as to putting them in an entertainment center (my guess is that they will advise against).

    Show the pictures to your wife and see what she thinks—if the cherry stained birch does not clash with your décor, she might like them well enough to not hide them.

    I’ve both seen and heard these and you would be very well pleased (and if not—after all it is your ears, not mine—you can return them within 30 days and only be out the shipping).
     
  11. john michiels

    john michiels Auditioning

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Buy from Axioms blemished stock at a 10% discount. Shipping was free. If your unhappy just pay the freight to send them back....but you won't be!

    Here's what I would do:
    If they can fit, M22's for the front right and left @$360 or M3's @ $250 and M2's for the rear @ $225. I hear the M22's are slightly better than the M3 ti's .... hard to believe. Center the front speakers in the wall unit cavity so that there is as much space around them as possible and bring them as far forward as possible to allow the rear ports to "breathe".
    Hear me out on this...it's a bit unorthodox. Skip the center and make sure to set up the dvd player without the center so it splits the center signals to the front right and left. My son is a classical musician with a good ear and when I disconnected my non-matched infinity center in this manner he swore Faith Hills voice was still coming straight out of the center. The money you saved is spent below.
    Home theater needs a decent sub! Buy an Infinity Kappa 120.3 SE 12" carsub for $110.00, build a SEALED enclosure per Infinity's specs with 1 cubic foot of volume out of 3/4 mdf, fill it with insulation and power it with a 250 watt sub-amp from Parts Express @ $128.00. For the price it rocks yet it's musically tight. I think you'll be quite impressed. My axioms are the light maple finish. Home depot sells 3/4 MDF with an almost identicle light maple finish for $10.00. I could not believe how well it matched.
    If you buy the M3's instead of the M22's you'll still have about 180 left. If your amp has 5.1 analog inputs go buy the Pioneer 563 DVD/DVDAudio/SACD player which costs 150 at Bestbuy. DVD Audio and SACD music formats are to CD what Hi res TV is to standard cable. It's incredible. Buy Dark Side of the Moon with the last 20 bucks. Congratulations you are broke.

    FYI- I have axiom M40's up front, M3ti's in the rear and the home made sub mentioned above and absolutely LOVE them! To please my "boss" the M3's reside out of sight under the couch end tables until I need them. Then they get pulled out and put on top of the tables when I listen to DVD-A or SACD music or do HT.

    Good Luck.
    John
     
  12. Joey_V

    Joey_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    i dont have a center - and in a small room, it is fine - but in a bigger room, the center is necessary... my opinion.
     
  13. Leigh_M

    Leigh_M Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look at the Energy C1. A very nice sounding speaker and ported in the front. There are several pairs on ebay now. Matched with the C-C1 center they make a very nice front three.

    Also, I own the Axiom M3ti and VP100. They are also a very nice set. The M3ti are rear ported but the VP100 is not ported. As was mentioned before, if you don't like the axiom you can return them.
     

Share This Page