Outlaw 950!! Logic7 v. Crystal Surround?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Randy G, Oct 16, 2001.

  1. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    Now that OutlawAudio has announced the feature set of the upcoming 950, I still have a question or two. Does anybody have any more specifics on "Crystal Extra Surround"??? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that "CES" will merely take a single mono rear channel and split it into two -3db rears, right? Or am I missing something? Will it take a 2 channel source and create 2 distinct sets of stereo rear channels ala Lexicon's Logic7 or the theoretical 7channel DPL II? If so, that would be awesome as long as you could calibrate for separate volume and delay.
    Here's a hypothetical: Given the analogue pass-thru and video switching capabilities of the 950, would you choose it over the Lexicon MC-1 IF they were the SAME price????
    Just Curious
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  2. Matthew Anderson

    Matthew Anderson Second Unit

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    I would still go with the Outlaw 950 because of it's ability to set the crossover for each channel.
     
  3. Patrick R. Sklenar

    Patrick R. Sklenar Second Unit

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  4. Herb Kane

    Herb Kane Screenwriter

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    Randy G:
    Are you looking for responses from present MC-1 owners? If so, I'm sure you know what the answer is gonna be.... [​IMG]
    Herb.
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  5. Herb Kane

    Herb Kane Screenwriter

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    "I would still go with the Outlaw 950 because of it's ability to set the crossover for each channel."
    Ah... you can with the MC-1.
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  6. Russell _T

    Russell _T Supporting Actor

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    The question you're asking "Is the build quality of the 950 as good as that of a unit 6 times the price?" I doubt it, but if it is even close, a lot of people have been had by Lexicon and the like. Also, the full adjustments for DPL11 are pretty cool.
    Russ
     
  7. Jah-Wren Ryel

    Jah-Wren Ryel Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't forget that technology marches forward, how many years old is the MC-1 design now? The 950 surely benefits from the integrated 192/24 multi-channel DSP from Crystal. I don't know what the lexicon folks use, but surely it must cost more being not so new. (Interestingly, if you poke around the Crystal site, it looks like they support Logic7 on their DSPs, it being an optional bit of microcode. I wonder what it would take to get real, full-blown Logic7 into the 950?)
     
  8. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    Patrick,
    It seems that you have a difficult time understanding the word "hypothetical". I wasn't asking anything about the ACTUAL prices of the units, nor the costs of implementing any particular features, etc. I realize that it's impossible to tell how these units compare sonically at this early date, so I was simply attempting to glean an opinion of whether the feature sets of these two units are somewhat comparable OR NOT. You obviously don't think so, which is fine(and I don't even know if you're a Lex owner). And as long as you're talking numbers, the street price of a new MC-1 is about 50% of list, or $3000, and used MC-1s will soon approach $2k.
    Russell,
    I didn't ask about construction quality, but since you brought it up, I'll let you know that as long as the unit seemed sturdy enough to not fall apart upon picking it up, that would be fine by me. Again, I KNOW the Lex lists for 6 times as much.
    Given the known feature sets of both pieces, I'm just curious to know what percentage of you folks would pick one over the other if the two units were offered for free.
    Too tough a question?
    Randy
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  9. Russell _T

    Russell _T Supporting Actor

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    Generally build quality consists of a little more than just whether or not it falls apart when you pick it up. It includes the quality of all the components used to manufacture the unit, how those components are assembled and how well integrated they are within the unit. Given similar features between two or more units, the only thing left to differentiate them besides the brand is the quality of the construction.
    Russ
     
  10. Patrick R. Sklenar

    Patrick R. Sklenar Second Unit

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    Randy,
    No, I do fully understand the meaning of the word "hypothetical". "Hypothetical" implies "possible" (probably unlikely, but still possible) and I just find it unrealistic to imagine the two units costing the same without at least one of them undergoing significant feature and/or quality changes. [​IMG]
    I do apologize however. Upon rereading your original question, I didn't quite understand that you weren't so much asking us to make a choice between the two units, but rather that you were asking "Ignoring price, which feature set do you prefer?". I've never seen an MC-1 and am unaware of it's full feature set, I'll take a look at it when I ge thome this evening and hopefully I'll be able to give you a valid answer to your question.
    Sound fair? [​IMG]
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    pat----
    home: [email protected] ... office: [email protected]
    Finally! A home page ... Grumpy's Lair
    [Edited last by Patrick R. Sklenar on October 17, 2001 at 06:48 AM]
     
  11. Herb Kane

    Herb Kane Screenwriter

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    Randy:
    As for the hypothetical, I think one would have to determine whether many of the features that will probably be offered on the Outlaw, will be of any significance or importance to you (or whomever the potential purchaser might be). To clarify this for example, the analog pass-through is of little interest to me, I don't require component switching with my FP and with true Logic7, DPLII is not an issue (I've heard it and certainly IMO, it is not).
    I have not looked into the Outlaw, so I don't know what features will or will not be available. I would assume that it should include many features most HT enthusiasts are looking for. Do I think it's ability to simply process will be equal to that of the MC-1? No. Am I disappointed with Lexicon's decision not to do future upgrades on the MC-1? You bet. While I don't think MC-1 prices are going to plummet, they should come down somewhat. I for one, have no plans on running out and dumping the processor. Lexicon's announcement didn't make the piece inferior. Will I upgrade to their "new" piece next year when it is announced? Yes. I'd be crazy not to. I think most will hang onto their units knowing there is going to be an upgrade trade-in package. What that will be, we don't know yet.
    I think this kinda answers your question....
    Herb.
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  12. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    Herb,
    Yes, you've answered my question in that it appears you prefer the feature set of the MC-1 over that of the 950. Not to negate your opinion, but you're somewhat biased. I wish that more folks would have chimed in so that I could get a better idea of which unit most folks would take. You may be entirely correct.
    Patrick,
    You might want to take another look at the definition of "hypothetical". It does not mean that something is possible. It means making an ASSUMPTION(or supposition) for the sake of discussion or debate etc.. I guess that I should have used its synonym,"suppose".
    Like I said, the question was simple: If I put both units in front of people and said "CHOOSE", which unit would most folks choose?
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  13. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    and Herb, I wouldn't have expected you to run out and dump your processor. In fact, I'd would even be willing to take in your unit for the MC-12 trade-up, and the MC-12B will only cost you $4900. Enjoy the heck out of your MC-1. It's a fine piece of equipment.
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  14. Herb Kane

    Herb Kane Screenwriter

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    Funny thing is Randy, if I did intend to drop 7-8K (CAN dollars) in upgrades right now, it would be to upgrade my FP, not the processor. While I'm certain the MC-12 is far superior to the MC-1, it doesn't have much that I am presently lacking with the MC-1. To clarify, the MC-12 has many more features and flexibility, not much of which are priorities for me presently. That's simply my opinion and my personal choice.
    You have me curious.... are you contemplating an MC-1 or the newest Outlaw...?
    Herb.
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  15. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    I'm contemplating them all Herb.
    I send alot of business to my dealer, who in return, lets me buy stuff at cost. I can get the MC-1 for basically nothing, Integra for cost, Denon for cost, or Outlaw for full msrp. I'm just looking towards the future regarding upgrades, because I only redo my entire system about once every 20 years or so. The MC-12 is flat out too much money. Oh yeah, I'm looking at the TagMcLaren as well. One thing I really have come to like is Logic7. For stereo sources, nothing beats it. Which is also why I anticipate 7channel DPL II.
    Regards
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  16. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    Where can I find info on 7 channel DPL2? I thought that DPL2 was a 5.1 channel algorythm for stereo sources.
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    -Kieran
    My HT Page
     
  17. Michael D

    Michael D Stunt Coordinator

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    Kieran,
    You are exactly right, their is no 7.1 DPL II at this time.
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  18. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    "I'm just looking towards the future regarding upgrades,
    because I only redo my entire system about once every 20 years or so. The
    MC-12 is flat out too much money. Oh yeah, I'm looking at the TagMcLaren as
    well. One thing I really have come to like is Logic7. For stereo sources, nothing
    beats it. Which is also why I anticipate 7channel DPL II."
    I can attest to this! After knowing and talking to Randy for over a year now specifically about speakers, he has still yet to pull the trigger! He can be so wishy washy sometimes!
    In all fairness, though, I think Randy is waiting for my woodworking skills to improve to his high level of meticulousness! He can be rather anal, this Randy fellow! [​IMG]
    Brian
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  19. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    You would be correct, Brian.
    When you're confident about my anal specs for an Emerald box, you've got my vote. But I DID pull the trigger on the pre-owned pair of regular Emeralds. Right now, I'm using them with 2 bridged AudioSource amps. Sounding quite good, actually.
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