Opinions on PLII

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jasen Chandler, Dec 6, 2001.

  1. Jasen Chandler

    Jasen Chandler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I am in the market for a reciever, I like the Onkyo 595, it seems to be a solid performer and I have owned onkyo stereo separates for years. It seems though the only real reason I am set on it versus others in it's price range is the Dolby Pro-Logic II. I would like this feature because my wife has a significant collection of videos that she enjoys watching (alright I like some of them too) and I want to get the best sound from these videos. I also understand the PLII is great for music.

    With that in mind my question is: Is pro-logic II worth it or should I get a reciever with 6.1 and no PLII (that seems to be the trade off in this price range).

    Thanks in advance for your opinions, and first hand PLII expiriences would be nice as well.
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    If you weren't going to watch much VHS, I would say don't worry too much about PLII. I SOLD, and still sell, my VHS versions once a DVD version comes out. The ol' VCR is hiding in the bedroom system, basically gathering dust.

    So far (I don't care what anyone else says) I have not been all that impressed with PLII. I'm not a fan of DSP of simulated effects, and I didn't find PLII to be THAT effective for music. It's not bad, but should not be a deal breaker, IMHO.
     
  3. jacek p

    jacek p Agent

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with the previus poster, PLII is good but not that great for stereo music. However, it is great for surround encoded audio (VHS tapes).
    I will quote from
    http://www.audaud.com/audaud/JUL01/E...uip2JUL01.html
    "Listening- Movies: One of the statements made on the Dolby website implies that DPL II is competitive with DD and DTS. I didn't really believe this claim so I ran a comparison using Chapter 2 from The Gladiator. I connected the analog outputs from the NAD DVD player and connected them to Video 1. This allowed me to switch between "video 1" and "video 2" and listen to the difference between the DD version and the matrixed surround version played back using one of the various DPL modes. This is not an entirely fair comparison because the 5.1 soundtrack is downconverted to 2 channels in the NAD and how well this is done is unknown. There was a difference in volume, so I compensated using the volume indications on the front panel. First I listened to the differences with standard Dolby Pro-Logic. There was no contest. The DD version had better dynamics, dialog was more intelligible, there was improved separation, there was less noise, and there was clearly higher resolution and better definition.
    Everything changed when I switched to the DPL II Movie mode. I listened to chapters 1 and 2 from The Messenger and was very impressed with the sound. Although it wasn't quite DD, it was definitely improved over standard DPL. I unplugged the front and center speakers and did a comparison between the surround channels. I put the NAD T751 receiver back in use and used it in the DPL mode. The difference was night and day. There were high frequencies clearly present in the rear channels and the sound was much more "5.1." When they were on with all the speakers, there was a not-so-subtle improvement in sense of space and presence in the room.
    I also listened to Chapter 6 from Goldeneye. After listening to the DPL II Movie mode I can't imagine anyone wanting to go back to standard DPL. It didn't detract from the movie in any way and helped to improve spaciousness and the feeling of being in the movie rather than just watching it."
    I own Kenwood VR509 and enjoy PLII Music for both movies and music.
    I hope it helps.
    Cheers
     
  4. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jason,

    Just be aware that the Onkyo 595 does not include the DPLII soundfield adjustments that are available on many other DPLII receivers. This means you will not be able to optimize DPLII to your listening room.

    BruceD
     
  5. Jasen Chandler

    Jasen Chandler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you all for the valuable input. I think I am leaning towards the Outlaw Audio 1050. Everything I read about it raves about it's clean powerful sound. Anyone have expirience with this reciever? What about Pioneer recievers, I mean they always seemed to lack power in the past is it still the case?
     
  6. James_T

    James_T Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jasen:

    Just wanted to add to the opinions on DPL2... about 2 months ago I purchased a Denon 3802, and up until about a week ago I was continuing a thorough test of DPL2 vs Stereo for music. I think DPL2 does some great things with certain CDs, but on that note it brings the music too forward for my tastes. It certainly widens the soundstage and sometimes its easier to distinguish instruments, but I think in the end it took me a slight step back in recreating that natural music sound.

    For my LDs and satellite viewing, however, it brings a whole new life. I'm sure it's just as good with VCR tapes, but I don't watch them myself. So if you watch a lot of TV, LD or VCR, then IMO DPL2 is a necessity.
     
  7. Darell_Land

    Darell_Land Auditioning

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a Marantaz SR5200 ...Before I get stones thrown at me, mine works and does very well. With this unit I get PL2 and 6.1 I paid $775CDN wich should make it around $500US and should fall into the price of the outlaw Just a thought And PL2 is worth it.
     
  8. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 29, 1999
    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not golden eared. I freely admit that I often struggle to hear what others call night and day differences. Dolby Digital vs. the "always better" DTS for example...

    That said, IMO, DPL II is THE real deal for video based 2 channel surround. To my ears, it stands head and shoulders above old Pro Logic (or any of the Sony, Yamaha, or other DSPs. (I have not heard Logic 7.)) It is much more natural sounding, spacious and far less center channel oriented.

    And while it sounds awesome for video based sound, for music (while it can do some really good things) it is less impressive (probably do to the fact that most 2 channel music was never intended to be played back in surround?)

    I liked DPL II so well in my main system that I upgraded my bedroom system to include it there too. My depleted wallet is proof that I'm sold!
     
  9. Myles

    Myles Agent

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Prologic 2 is much superior to regular Prologic for 2 channel source. It works esp. well with material that was designed with Dolby surround in mind.

    For music, it varies. Some music sounds terrific, Sara McLauchlin's Remix is incredible....you even hear her singing behind you at times...music surrounds you. Other music material can sound better in simple stereo mode.

    Sometimes I prefer to watch Satellite TV in Music mode since it spreads the sound field out more.

    It is worth it in my opinion...esp since if you don't get it, you may wonder about it.
     
  10. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 1999
    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes Received:
    0
    For 2-channel material on television, VHS, etc., DPL-II is an absolute revelation in comparison to original Pro-Logic. If you're going to be watching much TV, I definitely recommend getting a receiver with DPL-II. I've got the Onkyo 595, and it kicks much ass.

    However, I think whether you like Pro-Logic II for music will depend a lot on what type of music you listen to. My experience with it has been pretty good, especially for newer material that uses some electronic instruments and sounds. For classical music, it really didn't impress me. However, two albums really sold me on DPL-II:

    RADIOHEAD - OK COMPUTER: An absolutely beautiful album. DPL-II places sounds all across the front soundstage and sometimes in the surrounds, but never to the extent that it sounds unnatural. It's like sitting in the middle of a whirlwind of sound, and after hearing it in my living room I can't listen to this album any other way.

    POE - HAUNTED: This album was recorded in a home studio, using Pro Tools and other computerized mixing equipment. The album is spooky on its own, but DPL-II enhances the mood and makes you feel like you're in the middle of a haunted house. Creaks and groans in and between songs hover between the mains and surrounds, sometimes panning rapidly between. The voices of children move seamlessly from channel to channel. Samples of Poe's father speaking pop up from time to time, including one which subtly came from the right surround and scared the hell out of me. It sounded like someone had come into the room and was whispering, and I actually had to pause the disc to make sure.

    I also listen to a great deal of folk (Glen Phillips), punk rock, metal, and bluegrass (Nickel Creek)... and I haven't found any disc yet that made me think "Jumpin' Judas hangin' from a tree, that sounds better in stereo."
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    I have Sarah's Remix album also, as well as the Mirrorball DVD. The DVD in 5.1 is the best recording she's done, hands down. Remix sounds better to me in stereo.
    I hate to be the dissenter, but I still prefer nearly all my music in stereo. Ask me a year ago, when I was using pro logic for Sting's Ten Summoner's Tales and Nine Inch Nails - Downward Spiral or The Dave Mathews Band- Crush, and I would have had a different answer. Now however, having switched to my SR-6200, I feel music sounds even MORE impressive in stereo. There is more than enough presence in the music, that I often have to check to see if I accidentally put it into some DSP mode.
    Listen to The Eagles:Hell Freezes Over in DTS, and you will understand why DPLII is not making the grade for me. Stereo music on the Marantz is so clean and sweet that it seems a shame to add anything to it by sending it to more speakers. I don't feel that added ambiance really ADDS anything that wasn't already there. PLII is quieter and does not even come close to a 5.1 mix, IMO. (as I mentioned though, I am not a fan of DSP either)
    I might mention that Marantz (and I believe Kenwood also) has Circle Surround 5.1 (CS5.1) which has a similar, though much more satisfiying, effect than DPL-II.
    *edit: I didn't buy my receiver for features like PL-II. I bought it because I like the way it SOUNDS. [​IMG]
     
  12. Jasen Chandler

    Jasen Chandler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2001
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks again for all the wonderful comments. John I too am a stereo music listener unless it was recored in DTS. . . I am pretty sold on the Outlaw 1050 is seems to be a solid performer from what everyone says and will do me well. I can live without PLII. I will get it in a couple of years when I get a better pro/pre. having 6.1 and 6-channel power is a better trade off for me.
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jasen,

    Keep that on mind that the 1050 won't do 6.1 processing in DTS mode! Only in DD.
     

Share This Page