Okay Bill & Chu...what's the impact of the ACE-615 on sound? (1 Viewer)

[Jim_C]

I've read a couple comments around the net about the Adcom's effect on the upper end of the FR. Loss of dynamics and such. Have either of you any insight into this? Dynamics are really important to me, it's one of the reasons I love my Klipsch.

I'm either going to get the 615 or the Brickwall unit. I'd probably go with the Brickwall because I've read more about it's impact, or lack thereof, on the sound. However, I need to get a unit with sequenced startup/power down. The Brickwall doesn't provide that.

I could go with the small Brickwall and then a Rotel/Panamax unit with timed startup downstream but I think that the all-in-one solution of the Adcom makes more sense. However, if the 615 dampens the dynamics it's a very bad thing for me.

I'll buy the Adcom tomorrow if it doesn't create a loss of dynamics. I know the only way to tell is by listening to it myself but I'd like to get some, any, info about this before buying it.

Thoughts?

 

[Bill Kane]

Well, jim, there are always tradeoffs in life, and audio. I don’t know about Adcom’s performance in the “current limiting” realm that we see people worrying about.

Foremost, you are looking at Adcom because it’s leading-edge SURGE/SPIKE suppression technology, the Series Mode (Brickwall.com has a good website explanation) and the Adcom has the top U.L. Listing for this technology. And as you note it offers much switching convenience plus coax/tel terminals.

What is current-limiting? Former Widescreen Review reviewer Ricahrd Hardesty once looked at some surge suppressors and made these (paraphrased) conclusions:

In some tests, when amps areDRIVEN HARD, the ability of line filters and surge suppressors to supply the needed power may diminish – blunting transients, compressing the bass, reducing dynamic range and blurring sonic images. If amps are not driven hard, then one likely won’t have a problem.

I’m certain Hardesty was using quite high-end components in his listening chamber.

Jon Risch in audioasylum looked at a Brickwall and said:

Yes, it is an excellent surge protector, and may be as good as anything else out there for video, computers, etc. But it is NOT perfect for audio use. I suggest that folks who do wish to try it make sure they listen with it in the system for a while and then remove it to see if any dynamics come back. They may be hard to miss at first, until you get "used to" the sound with it in line, and THEN remove it. Some components/systems will not be audibly affected, more power to you, but it is not safe to assume that NO ONE will experience any loss of performance.

Mostly, I see folks with big power amps concerned about this and many end up plugging directly into the wall, often in a dedicated 15A or 20A circuit for the cleanest path. I do at this time because my $65 Belkin SurgeMaster II surge protector isn’t “qualified” IMO. But the quality of the delivered “dedicated” electricity remains the same out of the Main Service: get garbage, output garbage.

I think it’s going to be system dependent, and up to your listening given the entire signal chain you’re using and the quality of yr household power.

Thinking about voltage regulators/voltage stabilizers, I plugged in a VOM meter today into an unused outlet in my surge protector. I get fairly rock-solid 118.5V +/-0.4V under normal load, often 119V. (whoops, it just dipped to the upper 117V range.) I haven’t checked hard DVD blasting. I don’t know about my Sine Wave yet cause I don’t have an oscilloscope!

bill

 

[Chu Gai]

The Adcom, Brickwall, ZeroSurge, SurgeX and possibly others are based upon the same technology. Bill I believe recalls who seems to be doing the primary licencing. I can't think of a reason why the use of any of these products would result in what you said. Dynamics...the need for a momentary burst of power will come primarily from the reserve that's in your capacitors and they're replenished rather quickly. Not like the Klipsh have ever been power hungry speakers either! Sounds to me like someone has a hard** for Adcom as I seriously doubt that there's any other hard evidence to corroborate such a wild statement. Probably was a Brickwall fan though Maybe Adcom didn't kiss enough ass in the audiophile publications and make spectacular and meaningless claims? You look at their website and you see something rather refreshing...simple and very detailed information.
If you're looking at the ulimate in surge protection any of the above units will provide the highest level of protection meeting all of UL 1449, including the optional part including meeting the most stringent of governmental criteria.
On a side note, well designed audio equipment is quite capable of dealing with nominal dips and rises in house voltages.
You like it, buy it
BTW, i've seen a site where a fella 1/2 way around the world has stated something to the effect that he's put together an optimum combination of stones or was it semi semi precious stones that when place on audio equipment vastly improves the sound. People will buy it...they'll probably sing its praises. Sound like we're dealing with the lunatic fringe by any chance?

 

[Bill Kane]

As Chu correctly notes, large separate amplifiers have larger, more capable capacitors charging 120 times a second IIRC standing by for those peak current demands. This seems to lessen the overall potential for current-limiting degradation of the best sound the equipment is designed for.

It then seems logical that AVRs with less capable capacitors and transformers would be more susceptible to our perceived "problem." I know you have a Yamaha, and so do I. It's plugged into the surge suppressor because I am not gonna leave this box full of digital circuit boards unprotected!

 

[Jim_C]

Thanks for the responses.

I know that most of the things people read online are impossible to back up. I suspect that the claims I saw were just that. I figured that I'd ask. I tend to over-analyze things before I buy. I still think the Adcom is the right choice.

I have the Yamaha, as you mentioned Bill, but not for too much longer. I finally decided on the upgrade path after doing a lot of listening the past week. I'm headed for Rotel separates as soon as I can get the cash. That's the primary reason I want the timed power up/down. I don't want to deal with thumps or 4 power buttons.

 

[Chu Gai]

Jon Risch is not a stupid man but is one of the greatest speculators on virtually everything audio. I sincerely believe that he cares deeply about sound reproduction but has often gone out on very thin and fragile limbs and has made some quite remarkable claims such as being able to hear the difference in speaker wire just one foot in difference and that the color of the insulating material in cables results in audible differnces. To Jon a picofarad, a milli-ohm, a tenth of a dB is to be agonized over. These types of surge suppressors may be overkill for some but if you want the ultimate protection at this point in your life, your search is over, period. Simply keep one thing in mind and that is every and anything connected to your system must also be protected in some way as surges, spikes can travel anywhere so make sure any phone or cable lines that run into your system are also protected.

 

[Brian OK]

Gee Chue,

Can you reference the AA threads where Jon Risch has made these "out on the limb" claims. If you could provide the links for us then I would no longer harbor the impression that you are taking a swing at Risch with a barge pole (from a LONG way away).

Why the personal swipes at a guy you do not even rescource (by your own admission on this forum, not AA).... You do not frequent AA, as you state, because of the hyperbole, or something like that... or was it the evangelicals ? I can't quite figure out your motives in your response above.

Let us know, please.

BTW, Risch is responsible for one of the finest Line Conditioners for "cheap money" that you can ever find. A DIY'ers dream, it is superb, using a UL approved design, and I use one in my system. Puts most < $300. to shame.

 

[Chu Gai]

Happy to Brian. Jon posts in various places, AA (where he moderates and sets the tone), usenet, audioreview, and some others I believe. being a frequenter of AA, i'm sure Jon will provide you with other areas where he voices himself.
Color of an interconnect playing a role: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/twe...ages/1080.html

As always with things audio, it depends on the exact gear and circumstances.

I guess that's another way of saying YMMV.
Jon is quite aware of DBT's and has alleged that he's used them but upon requests for details they've not been forthcoming. I don't read every post of Jon's so I may've missed it.
Jon's a bright fellow, don't ever think I don't recognize that, but if you don't believe he likes to think out loud and rarely provides hard evidence or calculationsto test the reasonableness of his statements and speculations then maybe you've not read enough or maybe it just doesn't matter to you. Matters to me though.
I'm glad you like the power conditioner. It's fun to build things and gives one a nice feeling