*** Official STAR TREK (2009) Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[PaulDA]

I've not seen the deleted scenes yet, but I have read numerous interviews with Abrams in which he rather adamantly expresses his view that the theatrical cut is what he wanted to bring to the screen (and that he's not a big fan of re-cutting his work), so I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[FR975]

What a way to make it happen!

 

[Zack Gibbs]

I don't think many of the deleted scenes would have helped the film, and they did a good enough job of explaining why.

Spock's birth takes place before the attack on the Kelvin. Opening with it would have been a huge mistake, and shuffling the films timeline just to shoehorn it in after is no ones idea of good editing.

The Klingon scenes ultimately are a detour the film doesn't need, and even more importantly; their re-imagined Klingons were awful. Thank gods we were spared that.

The details on Kirk's cheating were superfluous. It is extremely clear that Kirk rigged the game in the movie as is. Showing Kirk taking advantage of Greengirl doesn't make him any more clever, it makes him more of a dick.

----

I do think the young Jim and George Kirk scene should have been left in. It would only extend young kirks introduction and without it destroying the car is both pointless and misleading.

 

[Nelson Au]

I've also read the same interviews where Abrams has stated he's happy with this cut of the film.

As far as the cut scenes go, I can see why he cut most of them. I've had a chance to view the movie a couple of more times. I am finding myself more interested in jumping ahead of the movie and right past the Kobayashi Maru scene to the sequence when the cadets are all called to their ships and the Enterprise pulls out of Space Dock. Before that, the other scene that I really like is Bruce Greenwood telling Kirk he could do better and to join Starfleet.

So what I think he's doing is cutting to the chase and getting right to Kirk and Spock's main story. And I am digging all the little TOS bits they are throwing. McCoy's divorce, the subtle line about a little suffering is good for the soul, the mention of Nurse Chapel, and Chekov's problem with the letter "V".

Of all the cut scenes, Gaila's scene where she opens the email from Kirk that releases his program that alters the test, was not needed. I don't need to know how Kirk cheated, I just know he did and I already have in my imagination Kirk himself doing it late at night after I saw that scene in Star Trek 2.

The scene of Spock's birth was very short, it might have been too choppy to add it back in, as good as it was. Plus it might have been shortchanged compared to the emotional strength of Kirk's dramatic birth. Or it was meant to contrast, I don't know. Maybe they could have shown Spock's birth transition to the scene at school where his classmates have prepared more insults. (That was a well delivered line!) But that transition is a commonly done think, and maybe JJ didn't want to do what's been done so many times before.

Seeing Jimmy and George's fight with their Uncle was interesting and explains why he took his Dad's Corvette. And it explains who Jimmy was waving at as he passes him. I can see Abrams trying to balance how much time is spent on Kirk and Spock's youth. Spock's youth is very short, so leaving out the fight with his Uncle could have been about balance. I think they could have left Amanda's fight in with Sarak right before he talks to young Spock. Adding the bit when Sarak tries to get Amanda on his bike could have fit too, but didn't seem necessary.

And if they could have done the alternate ending I posted above, I think that could have been excellent. It would have added a more emotionally satisfying ending to the film. Plus I like how Pike is doing more of the medal exchange and explaining how he is commending Kirk for original thinking. Though I can see that not saying that is explained by this not being our Universe anymore. And his commendation for leading his crew to save Earth made more sense. As filmed, I really like Pike's scene where he says, "I am relieved". If Shatner was willing to do it, I bet it would have been fine if it was old footage of Kirk's face and mostly voice over work. Plus Shatner doing the final Space the Final Frontier at the end. But I am fine with Abram's thinking that Nimoy was a better choice with his gravitas.

Regarding Nero's cut scene, I would have only kept the part where the Klingon's captured his ship and then add some voice over work of how he escaped. That whole bit is cool and the costume work is great. But it would have made the film drag and Abrams' own hyper propensity probably wanted the film to keep up the energy. I think it can be blamed on how a scene was not written well that better explains Nero's lack of background development. It seems it probably was written in another permutation of the script, but the development process probably left it out. Maybe Orci and Kurtzman are hacks, maybe they need more experience to better their writing skills, I don't know.

It's sort of hard listening to the audio commentary because, 1, they are such a tight group, JJ and the writters and producers, they joke a lot, and 2, JJ is really hyper and talks too fast and jumps around and sometimes doesn't finish a thought clearly.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs

I don't think many of the deleted scenes would have helped the film, and they did a good enough job of explaining why.

I completely agree. On their own, the scenes are fine but the movie needed to start rather than spend 1/4 of its run time with origin scene after origin scene.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,

Nice thoughts on the special features. I would have liked to have had the birth of Spock left in, the Rura Penthe/Klingon footage, and Jim and Sam's dialogue before 'Jimmy' gets around to washing the car. I suppose the dialogue of Uncle Frank would have been necessary to understand what the brothers are saying to each other as well when George is asked to leave his home. For my own part, some of the scenes would have added more depth to the characters in the film. I especially liked those of Nero, a character who really didn't do too much for me in the film. After seeing the deleted scenes involving him, I can understand a bit more clearly what it was he was trying to do, and why he did it.

BTW, I printed out your post with Shatner's would-be transcript. And I've read it a couple of times, trying to imagine the visual as I read the words on the page.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

The special features rule. Got teary eyed with the ones dealing with Leonard Nimoy.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma

The special features rule. Got teary eyed with the ones dealing with Leonard Nimoy.

Lou,

Good to see you here. I've been curious where you've been lately.

You're not the only one who got teary-eyed. I found what Abrams and a few others had to say about Nimoy to be very heartwarming. And to think that this film may not have been made had Nimoy given it an initial thumbs down.

I also liked the respect shown the original series crew by the members of the new crew. Chris Pine never referred to Kirk as William or Bill; rather, it was always "Mr. Shatner." Very nice indeed.

 

[Norm]

That scene with Jimmy speeding past his brother makes no sense. In the movie I though it was a random kid or school friend. Now with the deleted scene its Jimmys brother & you would think he would pick up his brother not race by him. I'm glad it was cut.

 

[Nelson Au]

Yes, it's good to see you here Lou! I was wondering where you went too!

I too noticed all the respect they gave to Leonard Nimoy and Mr. Shatner. As Chris Pine said Mr. Shatner, it does look like respect and also an invitation to invite him in. Because of all the actors, seems like William Shatner had no contact with the cast or came by to bless the work during production. I can understand his position, but the other cast members were very gracious and encouraging.

It just occurred to me, when I saw Generations, and the first 15 minutes involved Shatner and Doohan and Keonig, it felt like a Star trek movie. The minute it shifted to the Next Gen cast, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't Star trek anymore and I didn't want to see the rest.

With this new film, I didn't feel this way. Perhaps everything was new and it was easy to take it all in with open eyes. The inclusion of Nimoy was the icing and what made it more special, and it did feel like Star Trek. I was waiting to see Nimoy, but I was accepting this new cast.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Norm

That scene with Jimmy speeding past his brother makes no sense. In the movie I though it was a random kid or school friend. Now with the deleted scene its Jimmys brother & you would think he would pick up his brother not race by him. I'm glad it was cut.

In the movie it is a random kid or school friend, he's "Johnny."

But assuming it was filmed with him being George Kirk, why would James pick him up on his way to drive the car off a cliff? It would just have gotten him into trouble (or dead).

 

[Norm]

Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs




In the movie it is a random kid or school friend, he's "Johnny."


But assuming it was filmed with him being George Kirk, why would James pick him up on his way to drive the car off a cliff? It would just have gotten him into trouble (or dead).

He wasn't planning on driving off a cliff he was chased that way.

 

[Norm]

Originally Posted by Nelson Au

Yes, it's good to see you here Lou! I was wondering where you went too!

I too noticed all the respect they gave to Leonard Nimoy and Mr. Shatner. As Chris Pine said Mr. Shatner, it does look like respect and also an invitation to invite him in. Because of all the actors, seems like William Shatner had no contact with the cast or came by to bless the work during production. I can understand his position, but the other cast members were very gracious and encouraging.

It just occurred to me, when I saw Generations, and the first 15 minutes involved Shatner and Doohan and Keonig, it felt like a Star trek movie. The minute it shifted to the Next Gen cast, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't Star trek anymore and I didn't want to see the rest.

With this new film, I didn't feel this way. Perhaps everything was new and it was easy to take it all in with open eyes. The inclusion of Nimoy was the icing and what made it more special, and it did feel like Star Trek. I was waiting to see Nimoy, but I was accepting this new cast.

I had the same feeling. As soon as TOS cast was gone I was bummed. I wanted a movie all about them. I was never a big TNG fan anyway.

 

[SilverWook]

But we had six movies all about them! And a sense of closure with the sixth one.

Without Nimoy and Kelley on board, they should have reconsidered the whole TOS angle on Generations anyway. (And I groan when Scotty spouts Berman era technobabble.) It feels like they didn't have that much confidence in the TNG crew being able to carry the whole movie.

Either do a kick ass Kirk meets Picard story or don't do it. It's ironic that Kirk's father gets the kind of death Kirk himself should have had. And who could have predicted Generations would screw things up 15 years later! Shatner must really curse his decision now.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm
He wasn't planning on driving off a cliff he was chased that way.

You're welcome to interpret it that way, but the film does nothing to confirm it. In context with the deleted portion, I take it that Jimmy would rather see his father's car destroyed than have his abusive uncle profit from its sale.

While things are clearly different in the finished film I like the deleted material enough to believe it still happened that way. It's worth noting that as conceived, James passes George while being pursued by the cop. It's interesting to look at all the little changes they have to make because they removed the opening of the scene.

 

[Nelson Au]

That's a very true interpretation Zack regarding young Jimmy taking the Corvette. It wasn't really clear why he took the Corvette before, the cut scene gives you the sense that Jimmy would rather not let his Uncle have the car.

Good catch! And it set's up nicely, or one could say it starts a life long tradition of bluffing and or threatening to destroy, or destroying starships rather then letting the enemy have it.

 

[Ockeghem]

I must say, after having seen the newest film three times now, I am really looking forward to the next two films slated to be released over the next 3-5 years. I'm beginning to like this crew more and more. Seeing and hearing what they had to say about the original crew during some of the special features was very important to me. Every one of them (without exception) showed respect, admiration, and in a few cases, reverence for the original crew.

I'd love for William Shatner to be worked into the next film somehow. Since this is an alternate timeline, he didn't have to die the way we have seen his 'death' unfold in Generations. I know Abrams wanted him in XI, given what I have read and seen on a few Boards.

 

[SilverWook]

Imagine if Shatner got to play a new character in the sequel? I'd love to see him play a villain.

 

[Ockeghem]

^^^

You know, Shatner might just jump at that chance. I've often heard of actors who grow tired of playing the 'good' roles. Food for thought, at least.

 

[Nelson Au]

I'm afraid I'm not so sure it would be a good idea for Shatner to appear in a Star Trek film playing anything other then Kirk. The general pubic might expect to see him as Kirk, as well as a large portion of the fan community.

That ill fated move in Generations caused too many troubles too.