***Official NYC HT Expo 2000 Thread*** Still happy with what I have and other notes. (1 Viewer)

[John.Meer]

I agree with Holadem about the Dynaudio C4. I listened to a Brubek cut that was astonishing in detail and image.

The Polk exhibit was notable in that they demonstrated (clear) differences in various current formats. Maybe the deck was stacked with their selections, but the lossey compression formats came up short.

Finally, I stopped at the Outlaw exhibit mid afternoon Saturday. The people were friendly, but if I did not have a 950 sitting in my theater under evaluation, I would have run, not walked, to cancel my preorder. Maybe the Outlaws' hearing was starting to go, but they were beating the Atlantic 450's to death. I was sure I was going to have speaker parts in my lap any moment. My buddy (an AVM-2 owner) who witnessed this thinks I am nuts with the Outlaw thing. At least I got a neat pen.

Did anyone see the InFocus DLP? It looked pretty impressive.

 

[Shane Martin]

Larry,

I was impressed enough that I am going to audition a pair in my home

Prepare to spend the cash then. They may not leave your house

 

[Justin Doring]

Ricky,
"I don't know about $75k, I think a $30k retail system could be noticeably better. Whether the extra expense is worth it is another matter."
Considering the audio portion of my high value system retails for about $20,000, another $10,000 isn't going to transform it. Of course distributing the extra $10,000 among the components or cables might yield very slight advantages, but I doubt there would be any major improvement in the sound. My system has trounced a number of systems two, three, and four times its price, so I consider it to be pretty special. Theoretically these systems should have been better, as they were composed of higher priced components from reputable manufacturers, but they performed far worse. Most likely synergy, setup, and the room were at fault.
"What about this $30k system:
Von Schweikert VR5HSE speakers (special edition improvements, 12k retail)
Sonic Frontiers Line3 tube preamp (5k)
Spectron Musician II 500x2 digital amp (4k)
Sony SCD-1 SACD player (5k)
some super redbook DAC and decent cables (4k)"
I've heard the Von Schweikert VR-5 (but not the SE) and VR-7 and I was underwhelmed, especially for the price. I know a number of people rave about Von Schweikert speakers, but I've never personally understood what all the fuss was about. The NHT 3.3 is the best speaker I've heard under $10,000. You'd really have to spend $20,000 to get significantly better sound.
I've heard a number of $5,000-$10,000 tube amps (BAT, Audio Research, Sonic Frontiers, Conrad Johnson, etc.) and while they improve upon certain things (musicality, warmth), they are in many ways inferior (resolution, accuracy, bass) to my solid state Classe'. The Classe' CP-50 is not the greatest pre-amp out there, but for the price it cannot be touched.
I own the Sony SCD-1, and while one could spend far more on another CD player or a separate DAC and transport, I personally feel the money is better spent elsewhere. I doubt I'll be upgrading this machine for a very long time.
My Nordost Red Dawn cables certainly qualify as "decent." They're no Valhalla, but for one-tenth the price, I'll live with them. They've destroyed a number of cables from reputable manufacturers (Transparent, Cardas, Harmonic Technology, Audioquest, etc.) that were double and triple the price of the Nordosts.
“Have you thought about expanding your 2 channel setup to 5.1? I know someone selling used 2.9/AC2 for ~ $1600 (Mr. Sam ), my local high end dealer has a Classe SSP30 prepro for $2k demo. Add 3 amp channels like a Classe cav75 bridged to 150x3. Or get two CA100 amps, use the 4th channel to drive a $350 SVS sub for the LFE. 2.9s would rock as rears. You would have great 5.1 without sacrificing your 2 channel.”
Ideally I’d like two separate systems, but my current living situation prevents this. I’m not going to bother expanding my stereo system into a 5.1 one system, however, as I simply don’t have the room. When I move, I’ll most likely have two separate systems: a mid-fi 5.1 and my dream Levinson Reference and Wilson or Revel stereo system (hence the $75,000 price tag).

 

[RAF]

I don't know if AIX will do 2ch purist recordings for the audience perspective tracks. The engineer seems to be too fixated with the "stage" sound to care about doing other methods properly, which in his opinion, is the wrong method.

ling_w
I think that you are probably right about that. I didn't realize until after I got home that I this was his position (but the AIX emphasis on "stage" sound seems to indicate this) or I would have posed some more questions. I'll assume that AIX will be there next year and I'll pursue this then.

 

[Ricky T]

Justin,
I guess we got crossed up; from my NHT 3.3 setup retailing 11k, a 30k system should sound noticeably better. From your 20k setup, you'd probably step up to 50-75k for a significant improvement. Have you considered trying a highend tube preamp like the Sonic Frontiers Line3 ($2.5k used)? It's good to know someone else not ready to let go of 3.3s

 

[ling_w]

Robert,

I think that you are probably right about that. I didn't realize until after I got home that I this was his position (but the AIX emphasis on "stage" sound seems to indicate this) or I would have posed some more questions. I'll assume that AIX will be there next year and I'll pursue this then.

When I was there, the guy said he wants to create a experience instead of capturing it. He doesn't want to be a documentary maker like (forgot name), but want to be Speilberg. I am thinking, isn't that what the conductor is there for? you just go be that documentary maker.

It was a totally useless demonstration of the Meridian equipments.

 

[John Geelan]

The demo of The Stones new SACD hybrid was very thrilling. I got to hear Wild Horses thru Eggleston speakers and Manley amps.
All the selections in the Sony room sounded wonderful.
The Jorma, the Gospel number and the Pipe Organ piece.

But the Stones SACD really gave me goosebumps. A very anticipated release.


I thought this years show had less attendance (I was there Sunday) and it was easy to get around compared to last year.

I saw Michael Moore of Roger and Me fame just in from the Cannes Film Festival checking out the Paradigm/Anthem Room on the Concourse.
The JVC digital tape demo in there was absolutely stunning!
Great things are coming to Video as well as Audio in the future.

How about the reasonable prices of the new DLP projectors. One room had a PSB speakers system with video for around $10K. Not bad!

Met many friends at the Red Trumpet/Acoustic Sounds tables, great people.

Got a Mannheim SteamRoller demo DVD sampler that is fun to play. They've got James Earl Jones on there!

Picked up the Teledec Bach Pipe Organ Spectacular dvda by Koopman. Very Nice!

Overall my wife and I had a great time.

JohnG

 

[Dzung Pham]

ling_w, where were you sitting for the Harvey/Martin Logan demo? I was sitting in the back and definitely did not hear the soundstage collapse into the center channel when they switch to DPL2. This was a problem with most of the demos, I thought. Unless you were sitting in the right spot, you did not hear the system at it's best. I was off to the side for Sony's SACD demo and it turned out that most of the multichannel tracks had little use of the center channel except the gospel track. So I left feeling pretty disappointed with the demo overall.
I agree with Ricky T who talked about the size of the rooms not always being appropriate. The MBL room was too small for their speakers. The Gershman Avant Gardes sounded better to me than their flagship Opera Sauvage because there was barely any room for the Operas to breathe.
Anyway, my highlight of the show was talking to the Outlaw people. No, I did not get to hear the demo but I was able to pick up one of the show 950s for 10% off and save on shipping. My name is on the reservation list in January , which should be coming up soon, but all the waiting was getting to me.

 

[Larry B]

Dzung:

Anyway, my highlight of the show was talking to the Outlaw people.

You have got to be kidding.

Larry

 

[Dzung Pham]

No, I'm not kidding. My highlight was purchasing an Outlaw 950 right at the show and getting to physically bring it home with me. That was a lot more exciting to me than seeing any of the systems on display.

 

[Larry B]

Dzung:

any of the systems on display. [emphasis added]

There's the problem. You forgot to listen to the systems.
Larry

 

[Dzung Pham]

Listen? Oh yeah!

 

[RAF]

Play nice, Larry B. Let Dzung have his fun. I was wondering which people were lucky enough to purchase the two or three "demo" 950's that Outlaw let go at the end of the show. If more people who are on the waiting list knew about this I'd bet Room #639 (Outlaw's room) would have resembled Filiene's Basement.
Incidentally, while meeting Outlaw might have been the "highlight" for Dzung, it was probably the "lowlight" for me. It's one thing dealing with these people on the phone and quite another handling irrational Red Sox fans in person. (Just kidding, guys!)

And, on a slightly more serious note, this brings up the whole idea of what's a "highlight" for one person is a "ho-hum" for another. As we often say, different strokes for different folks. There certainly was enough to go around and everybody has their priorities. As I stated before, while I really enjoyed listening and looking at the wide range of equipment, some of it way out of my financial league, it did show me that my choices of equipment stand up very well with the "big boys" and makes me appreciate it even more.
And what was my "favorite" moment? Lots of things (including interacting with people). But if you forced me to choose just one event I would have to say John Pizzarelli's live performance on Friday. He had his dad, Bucky Pizzarelli do a couple of numbers and that was outstanding. His brother is on bass, his family was in the audience (his daughter fell asleep - a real critic!) and the whole set was one of those serendipitous experiences.
Know what I'm saying?

 

[ling_w]

Dzung:

I was sitting in near optimal position, in-line with the side speakers, maybe 1 seat off to the side.

The problem with DPLII is that it seem to be steered. Since I am a little off to the side, I hear the image as being slightly toward one side. When they switched on DPLII, the whole center image collapesd to the center speaker, which was 100% localizable like it was coming out of a small box near the floor.

 

[Larry B]

Play nice, Larry B.

Dzung: I apologize if my comments were offensive, as that was not my intention.

RAF: Thank you for pointing this out.

Larry

 

[John Geelan]

Oh yeah, I loved the Outlaw demo too!
One of the real fun rooms, everyone I was with had a blast there.
I answered Peter's question in the Hallway( I own an Outlaw ICBM) and received a Green Light Saber Pen which made everyone with me and near me jealous.
I had people coming up to me asking me about the Outlaw line after the demo since I owned some of their equipment.
People seemed real interested in this company.
Vertical Limit sounded great at their demo.
JohnG

 

[Dzung Pham]

Larry, not a problem, no offense taken. For me, the Outlaw represents at least months of listening enjoyment versus the few minutes offered by the demos at the show. Honestly, although I did hear some good setups, I didn't hear any system that really floored me. I attribute this more to the listening conditions than the equipment (improper seating, noise from other rooms, poor room acoustics). IMO, what you get at the show is the diversity and quantity of systems to listen to as well as the opportunity to interact with some of the good people in the business.

 

[Justin Doring]

Did anybody hear Wilson's new WATT/Puppy 7? Impressions? Thanks.

 

[John Geelan]

Did anybody hear Wilson's new WATT/Puppy 7? Impressions? Thanks

I thought the Wilson Watt Puppy 7's sounded great. Worth the $20K if you can afford them
They first put on a percussion piece by Mickey Hart which sounded great, then we heard some Lionel Richie (All Night Long) which again was fine.
Their demo wasn't a closed room demonstration so their was alot of noise with people coming and going, doors opening and closing.
But in the end the Wilson's are right up there in exteme quality of sound.
A case of If I Had A Million Dollars!
JohnG

 

[Holadem]

Justin, as I said earlier, I was not at all impressed
It doesn't help that these are some of the ugliest speakers I have ever seen
--
Holadem