*** Official "INSOMNIA" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Peter]

I don't think the flashback scene had anything to do with whether he really saw his partner or not. Remember the sleep deprived hallucinate. It's not as clear cut as you are thinking Steve, maybe that will make it better for you?

 

[Seth Paxton]

I saw the movie as more of a character study.

Me too, which is why I really liked it. I thought Nolan's touch was one of the BEST things, rather than a problem. Like his shot work on the rock beach chase and the log chase. He really worked the details a lot of the time, going away from characters to look at elements around them.
Also in the chase sequences especially I thought the foley work was really good. I usually don't notice such things, but the sounds here were really effective.
So to me it was all about investigating mainly Pacino, but also Williams later on. I did not feel surprised, but then I hadn't really expected to. I just wanted to see how Pacino was going to react. In that regard I thought the story was just true to the characters. Sure that makes it more predictable, but I find that better than some wild-assed U-turn to character behavior when you leave saying "he would never do that".
Watching Pacino sink into his guilt ridden insomnia warped world was great. I kept wondering how much farther he could go without sleep. To me the film really captured the shakey delirium that lack of sleep gives you.
But then my fiancee and our 2 friends all thought it was boring. So it looks like most people thought it was dull, and a few thought it was great.
No way Pacino shot him on purpose. In fact I thought that was the point of it all. If he had done it on purpose I don't think there would be any going back. Also I thought they established his motivation to go along with the lie very clearly. That made it interesting to me, to see a guy truly between a rock and a hard place, trying to find some refuge in there somewhere.
Vince, I also thought Se7en during that scene. If it wasn't a tribute it should have been.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I don't think the flashback scene had anything to do with whether he really saw his partner or not. Remember the sleep deprived hallucinate. It's not as clear cut as you are thinking Steve, maybe that will make it better for you?

Not only that, but he doesn't admit guilt, he admits that he has basically convinced himself that it was intentional when it really wasn't. His guilt and sleep problems just make this problem grow, each feeding on the other.

Also the group I was with was all confused about her falling asleep like that. Well I took it to be that they simply talked until she fell asleep on him. That she sat or laid down on the bed in the middle of the night while talking is not strange at all. I don't see why it had to be sex or some weird reason.

She comes up in the middle of the night, certainly tired. They talk for quite awhile and along the way she zonks out. She is depicted as comfortable around them, perhaps even interested in Hap before his death. Pacino can't sleep, what's he going to do say "Wake up and get out of my room." No, because he is mulling over the right choice. If anything he is glad she fell asleep so he can slip off to do the right thing.

 

[Steve Clark]

No way Pacino shot him on purpose. In fact I thought that was the point of it all.

Pacino definitely shot him on purpose. I thought that was the point of the movie, whether or not he would get away with it. Alot of the tension in the movie was the fact that Pacino was caught red handed by the Robin Williams character. The Williams character saw that Pacino was in in a position to clearly identify the person he shot and used this against Pacino the whole 2nd half of the movie. Pacino tried to cover it up the best he could.

The way I see it, Pacino was in a paranoidal state greatly enhanced by his insomnia. I do not think he set out to kill his partner, it just happened in a split second decision. I also felt he confessed to the Swank character at the end right before he died as he handed the spent shell back to her. I think at the end he felt it was his time to die (and sleep) in light of killing his partner.

The fact that Pacino shot his partner on purpose and the resulting tension made this movie almost watchable as far as I was concerned. A better ending to me would have been the Pacino and the Williams characters both getting away with their respective crimes and Hillary Swank either unsure whether Pacino did it or just not following up on any more leads out of respect for him. Now there is an ending to a psycho drama.

 

[Jeff Willy]

I can't agree that Dormer intentionally killed Hap. I think it was a split-second reaction to seeing a body in the fog. Earlier in the scene, he saw a body, yelled "freeze" (or whatever they say) and the body shot back and hit the other cop. His inaction resulted in a cop getting shot. I don't think he wanted to make the same mistake twice.

When Dormer noticed it was Hap that he had shot, I'm sure his detective-mind started recounting all the evidence that could be used against him to establish motive (including the argument in the hotel, witnessed by the Maura Tierney character). His actions in covering up the shooting were certainly motivated by this "motive" evidence (no pun intended).

One question though... My memory is not crystal clear on why Dormer switched to his backup gun before shooting Hap. It looked like his gun either jammed, was out of bullets, or he just decided to go with the backup gun. Which was it? Did he shoot that many bullets before shooting Hap?

 

[Rich Malloy]

I don't agree that it was necessarily intentional either - as I recall, it wasn't in the original version.

I like Nolan's version so much better than most of you here seemed to have - in fact, "Insomnia" is up there with "Y Tu Mama Tambien" and "Minority Report" as the best movies I've seen this year - but, for the life of me, I don't see the reason why this movie was made. There are some slight changes - for example, Pacino's character is certainly more "good" than Skarsgaard's, and somewhat redeemed by the end - but all in all it's the exact same movie. And while I prefer the original if you pressed me on the subject, the two movies are so close as to be practically interchangeable.

Which brings me to "Abres los ojos" and "Vanilla Sky". The two "Insomnias" are by-and-large the same, but the two "open your eyes" are almost exactly identical. There is simply no justification for directors of the calibre of Nolan and Crowe to be making what amounts to shot-for-shot remakes like some second-unit "foreign language version" director of old. It's a waste of their talent. And since these films turned out to be virtually identical to the ones I've already seen, it's a waste of my time.

In the end, it doesn't really matter if Crowe's "Open your Eyes/Vanilla Sky" or Nolan's "Insomnia" are any good. "Been there, done that" is my first and last response to both.

 

[Brook K]

I was questioning the Maura Tierney asleep thing as well, you can explain it in your head, but I'm thinking there's probably a cut scene and they left in this somewhat awkward edit.

I haven't seen Vanilla Sky (and it doesn't seem worth the effort) but I've seen the original Insomnia and would agree with Rich, this remaking of foreign films for an English audience is tired and disrespectful to the original creators, but it isn't going to stop happening, and I suppose keeping it the same is preferable to the hack and slash that usually takes place when these translations are done.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Brook, if you've seen "Abres los ojos", then you most certainly have seen "Vanilla Sky". It's exactly the same, except around the margins where Crowe adds a Bob Dylan album cover and a Jules et Jim movie poster. Nice additions, to be sure, but just so much edge-dressing.

Nolan's "Insomnia" at least made a few, slightly more substantial changes, but not enough to justify a whole new movie. And it doesn't really bug me that identical versions are being made so much as it bugs me that top-flight directors are wasting their time remaking them. Leave it to the studio hacks.

 

[Brett Jason]

You can probably extend this discussion to include Manhunter and Red Dragon. The trailer I saw had some of the exact same dialogue between Lector and Will Graham. I think it's ridiculous.

 

[Mike Graham]

Concerning remakes, I'm glad there's a remake of "Red Dragon" coming out with Hopkins involved; the Michael Mann version just seems so dated with eighties music and what not that I'm looking forward to how good the remake can be.

With "Vanilla Sky", I thoroughly enjoyed the movie

and all the talent involved. By remaking the film into English, it allows it to reach a much larger audience. I know two or three people offhand who absolutely loved the remake who would never give the subtitled originals the time of day. Sad yes, but its reality. Some people just don't like subtitles.

As for "Insomnia", I thought this was film was fantastic, and seeing Al Pacino do such an amazing performance on screen was fabulous. Besides, the original isn't available in any of my local video stores even if I wanted to check it out. The film is wonderfully directed character story brilliantly acted out by talented actors. I hope they start remaking more of these European films so that they can reach a larger audience, namely myself!

 

[Ryan Peter]

I wonder if we'll get a "Y Tu Mama Tambien" remake pretty soon?

 

[Vickie_M]

I finally saw this movie yesterday and was very impressed. I loved the pace and the look and feel of it, and thought the acting was excellent. I haven't yet seen the original, but it's in my Tivo, waiting.
While I didn't think that Dormer killed his partner on purpose, I realized while reading this thread that I had attributed something much darker to him. In the scene where he confesses to Rachel (Maura Tierney) and then we see her asleep on the bed, I thought he had killed her! It seemed pretty logical to me. He'd already been through hell, physically, emotionally and mentally, but here he was, on the verge of getting away with it all, and he confesses. I assumed that while it was good for his soul, short-term, he couldn't just leave her with the truth. He had to kill her to give himself more time to get away. That's how my thought process went. I didn't question it until reading this thread and seeing that no one else thought that. I guess she WAS just asleep and a connecting scene was probably cut out.
Anyway, how can anyone say that this movie was "over-hyped"? What does that mean? If it's got a great pedigree (respected source, respected director, respected actors-quips about Robin Williams notwithstanding) and is advertised on TV, in magazines and on posters, and gets good reviews, how is that "over-hyping" a movie? The way that term is used in this forum, I'd think a movie would have to be released straight-to-video, in another country, and seen by no one outside of the participant's families, in order for it to avoid being called over-hyped.
I supposed that "movie other people said they liked but I didn't like as much as they did" = over-hyped.
DERSU USULA, I loved it!! (over-hyped though it may be)

 

[Mike Graham]

I supposed that "movie other people said they liked but I didn't like as much as they did" = over-hyped.

All humour aside, I think you're dead on with your remarks.

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

Over-hyped, of course, is not the same as overrated. The former is bourne by the media, filmmakers and studio people releasing the film. No such thing happened in Insomnia as far as I can remember.

Overrating is another matter and happens all the time depending on who you ask about a particular film. Someone might consider a film garbage but another would love the same film. There are examples of this almost every year.

~Edwin

 

[Craig P]

I had the same thought (especially since I had this odd impression of something other than shoes on her feet) and tried to look closer but didn't see anything. With the way the film ended, though, I decided it really didn't make any sense.

 

[oscar_merkx]

Just came from seeing Insomnia and have not read anything in the preceding threads.

In some ways I thought this was a much darker picture than Memento, the interaction between Williams & Pacino was very well done. They both have got something to hide, they both kiled somebody and are trying to convince each other that they have done the right thing. I thought that Robin Williams outperformed Pacino, simply for the fact that I was not expecting such a strong performance from him. This was as good as when he was in Goodmorning Vietnam or Dead Poets Society or even Good Will Hunting.

I was stunned to discover that Pacino had shot his own partner with the Fog sequence. Looking back, it was more obvious towards the end, yet he did it because he thought he was doing the right thing. Also he had not slept for days which does not help to clear his judgement. There are many clues throughout that you would miss on the first viewing.

I will have a look through this thread what pother people thought and came back.

 

[Lee_eel]

Just saw this film in the U.K. I thought it was a great movie. Al Pacino just oozes class and he puts in another assured performance. Robin Williams is also very good. I don't care what anyone says, this guy is a class act whose main fault is the fact he stars in too many sugary movies.

Hilary Swank was good support but the Alaskan scenery was another star of this movie. One thing i will say about this movie is that it's not an action movie. it has some action scenes scattered throughout but this is more pyschological than traditional good guy - bad guy flicks.

That last sentence should read good guy gone bad given his circumstances however. Anyway, overall top stuff. Al pacino has to be one of the finest actors of all time and he elevates this movie to great heights.

Rating 8/10

 

[BrianShort]

I watched the remake of Insomnia tonight. I thought it was pretty good, although Alaska isn't that light in the summer unless you are very close to the arctic circle. With the scenery they had, there is no way they were even close to that far north
Anyway, a question about the ending
In the original, the detective doesnt die, does he? It's been awhile since I've seen it, but I was pretty sure he lived. So I was a bit surprised when Al Pacino's version of the detective died
btw: I was at that very glacier where the finale of the movie takes place. That area of British Columbia is very nice.
Brian

 

[Doug R]

The ending of the original Insomnia:



Nope, the detective doesn't die. He leaves with the knowledge that his female detective pal knows the truth about what happened to his partner.