*** Official BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Robert Ringwald]

I remember in my sociology class we discussed a study that was done. Two stories were given to a bunch of people to read. One of the stories was a critically praised short story by a famous author, the other was by a no-name author with what is considered an average story.

They swapped the author's names and told people the no-name piece was the award winning short story by the famous author. Afterwards they asked people which one they liked more.

Most commented that the "amazing critically praised" piece was CLEARLY much better written.

The power of suggestion can do so much.

 

[Vickie_M]

What does that have to do with Brokeback Mountain?

 

[Sean Laughter]

Ang Lee didn't really direct Brokeback Mountain, it was Uwe Boll.

 

[Vickie_M]

Open letter from Peter Shalit, Gene's son:



I take back what I said about Shalit being a homophobe and apologise for it (and btw, I used the word, GLAAD didn't). If his son doesn't think so, fine. He's still an idiot and should apologise. I stand by what I said. I still agree that "It is defamatory, ignorant and irresponsible. GLAAD is absolutely correct to demand an apology."

 

[Sean Laughter]

I actually don't know which is the worse alternative:

a) he's a homophobe

b) he's paid to write movie reviews and apparently can't understand simple characterization to such a point that he makes such a ridiculous assertion concerning the character of Jack.

 

[Vickie_M]

Or that he paid so little attention that he didn't see that Ennis was obviously a top when he could have left the tent, Ennis re-entered the tent and let Jack caress him when he could have stayed away, Ennis wrote the postcard to Jack saying "You bet!" (I think that's what he wrote) when he could have just not answered Jack's postcard, Ennis was ecstatic to see Jack and gave him a huge hug when he could have just shaken hands, Ennis was the one who pulled Jack back into the stairwell when he could have just taken him upstairs to see Alma, Ennis went to the motel with Jack when they could have just stayed home and caught up, Ennis took off work and met Jack at Brokeback Mountain at least twice a year for the next 20 years...I mean my god, how stupid and unobservant can one person be??

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I agree that GLAAD is well within their rights to ask for an apology. But at this point, it seems they should apologize to Gene Shalit for the character assassination (attempt) as well. Amusing that I wrote this before reading the quote below.

That struck me as well. I had a specific discussion with a very good friend this weekend, and we referenced Munich. All organizations, high-minded and low, compromise their values to win the war. This is an example of GLAAD doing so.

He is still a dreadful reviewer, however, and must have missed chunks of scenes involving Ennis initiating the sexual contact. Like, every time but the first. It still doesn't forgive the poor treatment of him.

If I asked for an apology every time I saw something in the media that lumped white men in as evil/stupid/base/etc, I'd be asking every commercial, sitcom, and romcom for an apology weekly.

 

[Blake Siefken]

I got the impression that a part of Ennis's mind wanted to believe that Jack was a sexual predator who seduced him, and that it was his fault that Ennis was "a queer", but that's not the reality of what's happening in the film, and is not what Ennis ultimatley realizes.

I stand by my prediction that this film will make a shit load of money, and the distributors who drop it are as stupid as the ones who refused to show "Passion of the Christ", which was also destined to make shit loads of money.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Though I would like it to celebrate the success that Passion of the Christ did, I think it's only made about 16 million.

 

[Bradley Newton]

It's made $22.4 million in limited release during the last 31 days. It's currently on less than 500 screens and had a higher per-screen average than the number one movie last weekend, Hostel. The film has now recouped its production cost ($14 million). And it won Best Picture at last night's Critic's Choice Awards. Five of the last six films to win Best Picture at the CCA went on to win the Oscar. I think the folks at Focus Features would definitely consider the film a success.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I think BBM is going to be quite successful financially. Nowhere near POTC, but a lot higher than Focus probably expected a few months ago. It's probably going to make huge money in home purchases and rentals as well. It's a watershed film.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

Because the movie is getting such critical praise there will be those who go into it expecting to be blown away, or who will be praising the quality in spite of even seeing the film. And finally there will be those who choose to dislike it BECAUSE of all the praise to be "different." Like what happens with every movie ever released.

For the record, I saw the movie opening night and I thought it was absolutely amazing. If Heath doesn't win best actor at the oscars I'll officially keep not watching every year. If the movie doesn't win best picture, that's a real shame.

 

[Shawn Cornwell]

Totally agree the film "stays" with you after you leave the theater. Moments from the film (for example, Jack's early glances at Ennis, Alma's shocked state during her introduction to Jack, combined with Ennis' boyish excitement over seeing Jack again, Cassie's brief speech to Ennis in the diner, Ennis (in flashback) remembering embracing Jack on the mountain, Lureen's stifled gasps during the phone call. . .) remain unshaken from my mind days after viewing them- few films have left this strong an emotional impact on my psyche.

Futhermore, I can't remember another film which portrays loneliness (namely, Ennis') so vividly- achieved, of course, thorugh Lee's masterful direction and Ledger's heartbreaking work. Although Lee sets a subdued tone throughout much of the film, "Brokeback" is one of the most moving and powerful films I've ever seen. Due to expense and the quality of many current films, I don't normally go for repeat viewing at theaters, but I defintely plan a return trip to this "Mountain" before it leaves the local cinemas.

I'm hoping for a bundle of "Brokeback" Oscar nods, then wins, followed by a swift DVD release. I'm also pulling for a "Brokeback" SAG ensemble award, as I think every major cast member (Ledger, Gyllenhaal, Williams, Hathaway, Quaid, Cardellini) gave an impressive, memorable performance.

 

[Sean Laughter]

Both of my viewings I was under the impression that that was a flashback Jack was having - if it was a flashback at all. I'm not convinced it's not just a kind of mirroring device strictly from an emotional viewpoint that Ang Lee felt worked in that moment between them - two partings, the earlier one where they were to see each other in a few hours and the current one where they were fated not to meet again. It doesn't necessarily have to be in either of their minds.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

while on the subject of Oscar nods, I certainly hope the Actress who played the daughter gets a nod. She was wonderful.

 

[Blake Siefken]

Obviously I dont think this is going to make the half a billion world wide that Passion of the Christ did, I made the comparisson because POTC was controversial - and it sold more because of that. BBM will make a lot when it finally gets into wider release thanks to the controversy surrounding it, at least in the USA where being gay is controversial for some reason.

 

[Shawn Cornwell]

As I recall, the "flashback" I referred to happened during an Ennis scene, wherein the audience was seeing the younger Jack and Ennis through Ennis' perspective, although I guess Lee does leave this moment open to an individual's interpretation. The fact that both characters did appear younger led to my assumption this was intended as a flashback sequence, harking back to the couple's happier days on the mountain. I'll have to see how the scene plays out on a second viewing.

1/22- I saw the movie again and finally read the short story- BOTH Jack and Ennis are in the scene preceding the flashback, but only Jack is seen immediately following the flashback, as he watches Ennis drive away. As mentioned in another post, in the short story Jack is the one who recalls this earlier scene on the mountain. . .

 

[Vickie_M]

I got the impression that it was Jack's flashback too.


Shalit apologised.


From GLAAD's web site:

 

[MichaelBA]

Sort of a non-apology from Shalit. Rather in the vein of "I'm sorry you feel that way" instead of "I'm sorry."

Judging only Shalit's review, because I haven't seen the film, it seems that Shalit was trying to say that the "Jack" character was selfishly putting both his physical desires and his emotional connection to the other man above the potentially devastating social risks they faced in that time and place. Perhaps Shalit is trying to say this was irresponsible and inconsiderate?

Looking beyond any hint of homophobia and just at the way the story plays out on film, has anybody who has seen BBM felt that anything sexually predatory about the character "Jack" is in some way objectively applicable?

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I think he used a poor choice of words to express something I read months ago by Dave Poland. They are not equals in the relationship. The film makes it clear that Ennis has one true love. He is with his wife, he is with Jack, and maybe that cute waitress. That's it.

Clearly, Jack is not so monogamous (or bigamous, but you get the point). In terms of homosexuality. Jack has been with several men, and Ennis with one. One could argue it's a great love for Ennis, and merely a fascination with Jack. I don't buy into that, but the evidence is there.

I don't buy the predator angle at all.

Ennis is "on top" during the first encounter. Ennis goes back to Jack after it. Ennis initiates physical/romantic after their first few years apart. Ennis is clearly excited about Jack, loves him (and being with him) deeply. There is a mountain of evidence disputing the specific claims Shalit makes, but quite a bit less on the generic unevenness of their relationship.

I would agree with Michael. That's the "sorry I offended anyone" apology, which is all GLAAD deserved in my opinion. Did they apologize to him for their specific attack?