Newbie display questions (sorry!) :-)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kevin C Brown, Jan 5, 2003.

  1. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I finally am within arm's reach of having the audio where I want it, so my next (hopefully not soon [​IMG] ) upgrade will be my display.
    Here's the gist of my questions:
    I have a "std" tube TV. That's interlaced, right? What is the vertical resolution? (540i?)
    I'm not looking for HDTV yet, but I'm wondering if there are high quality (flat screen) displays with the following:
    a) I want to be able to use progressive scan from my DVD player
    b) I want to be able to watch anamorphic DVDs in that mode
    c) If possible, are there any sets that will "upconvert" a std analog (cable TV) input to, i) higher vertical resolution, ii) progressive scan?
    Thanks!
    (Maybe any FAQs around with this stuff?)
     
  2. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Kevin,

    AFAIK, such a TV doesn't really exist--at least not anymore.

    Also, you normally won't want upconversion into "higher vertical resolution" unless it's actually required by the display although some people (ie. primarily HTPC folks) might argue otherwise. In general, such upconversion will introduce artifacts w/out gaining you anything.

    Maybe if we know what your budget is, we can suggest HDTVs that might fit or come close to your budget. You might be surprised by what you can get. For example, you can get a 30" Samsung widescreen or a 32" 4x3 for ~$1K. They also make a 27" 4x3 for ~$700.

    _Man_
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Man- OK. I'm still grappling with 4:3 or 16:9. I have a 32" 4:3. If I want to keep that size for broadcast TV, I calculated that I'd need a 40" 16:9. (Or, I'd just go to a 36" 4:3.)
    Max budget is $2000.
    For example, I found this guy, Mistubishi 42311 with:
     
  4. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    OK. It looks like the Mits' feature (DPM3) that you refer to is basically their linedoubler for making 480i signals into 480p. It doesn't sound like the 540p upconversion that you might've heard about regarding the Hitachi and Toshiba TVs.

    540p upconversion is what you don't normally want to pay extra for since that most likely won't make the PQ better.

    The 7xx is 720p, which is rarely natively supported by CRT-based TVs. Some will upconvert to 1080i for you, but almost none will do it natively. Not too much HD content is in 720p right now although it might matter to you if you're a sports fan w/ a keen eye that can appreciate the difference between 720p and 1080i-upconversion. ABC uses 720p, and it sounds like ESPN will also when they go live in a few months. 720p is supposed to be better than 1080i for sports, but again, the selection of natively supported TVs are limited.

    Personally, I wouldn't worry about 720p given your budget. Even if your TV doesn't upconvert, eg. current Panny's, you'll probably get a set-top box that can upconvert.

    Also, given your budget, there's no reason to stay away from HDTVs.

    _Man_
     
  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Man- OK, yeah, not higher resolution just interlaced to progressive.

    (OK, so "normal" TV is 480i, but 480p would be better quality.)

    What do I need to be able to watch anamorphic DVDs in the "best" mode?

    And then for my budget, and the screen size I'm looking at, any suggestions? Is Mitsubishi a reputable brand? I know for regular TVs in the early 90's, their "Daimond Vision" (or something) was pretty highly acclaimed.

    THANKS.
     
  6. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Hehheh, it's actually not quite that simple. [​IMG]
    Overall, I've heard that the Mits have good linedoubling, but ideally, you'd use the TV's linedoubler for regular TV, not DVD or HD. Progressive scan DVD is best done by a good player. Just from what I could see in the stores, I couldn't say that any TV had a real edge in linedoubling, except the Pioneers. If regular TV programming is important to you, I'd suggest finding a non-Elite Pioneer that fits in your budget and size range, if possible, and compare for yourself. Nevertheless, others have claim excellent results after some tweaking w/ other brands like Sony and Mits, especially the Mits.
    Also, if you plan to use a stretch mode for 4x3 viewing to avoid burn-in, that's another thing to check for yourself before buying. In general, you really need to see for yourself and maybe make use of any 30-day guarantee you get.
    Pretty much all the brands are competitive and have their own strengths and weaknesses and could all use some tweaking. And most flaws can be overcome whether by tweaking or by mating w/ a good DVD player or whatever other video source or processor. For example, the Panny's are the cheapest and are very competitive for anamorphic DVD and HD, but not for its stretch modes or linedoubler. You can overcome some of these relative weaknesses w/ a good DVD player and/or external scaler/doubler, but then the final package won't be cheap anymore. So I'd recommend against Panny if regular TV is important.
    What kind of viewing habit and priorities do you expect for this TV? That would help in your decision process.
    FWIW, I own a Panny and will get a good DVD player for non-anamorphic DVDs, ie. one that does scaling/aspect ratio control so I don't need the TV's zoom mode. BTW, even if you get a TV w/ good zoom mode for non-anamorphic DVDs, you might still want such a player, if you watch foreign films and need to use subtitles. Also, I don't like stretching 4x3 content, so decided to stick w/ the old 32" CRT for most 4x3 viewing instead.
    Another thing to consider is including ISF calibration in your budget if you're not the tweaking type. So if you don't really care about regular TV quality, then a Panny could be that much more attractive since it can afford you savings toward ISF.
    _Man_
     
  7. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    OK, I gots to read your latest post a few times more... [​IMG]
    I have a Panny 32" SuperFlat set now, and really kind of like it. I also have a Pioneer DV-47ai, so buying Pioneer wouldn't bother me none either.
    OK, line doubler in the TV for normal TV source, but the DVD player takes care of that for prog scan.
    Stretch mode... That's why I still haven't decided on 4:3 or 16:9 yet. I do 80% "broadcast" TV watching vs 20% DVDs. But I have a buddy who uses stretch mode on his big/wide screen set (only seems to stretch the outer 10-20% of the picture though; not "stretched" linearly across the picture), and I get a headache watching football on it.
    I believe that some Sony's (?) have a specific "squeeze" mode for anamorphic DVDs on some of their 4:3 sets? (I'm kind of anti-Sony though. The initial problems with their Wega sets bothered me.)
    Yuppers, I figure about $250 for ISF? (I know enough to know that for RP, ISF is probably worth it...)
    Oh, just to clarify, normal TV is 480i. Can you specify what 540 & 1080 are? (I got the 720 one.)
    Getting there, thanks.
     
  8. Joe Reed

    Joe Reed Stunt Coordinator

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    540p is what Toshibas and Hitachis upconvert 480i to, you don't have to worry about this unless you want one of these brands, 1080i is High definition, which is remarkable PQ, go to a BB or CC and check out ther discovery channel HD and you can see veins in the grasshoppers legs and it is amazing, [​IMG] I would say if you watch 80% broadcast go with a 4x3 set, I had the 50" widescreen Sony Grand Wega, but I didn't like the PQ on cable or how video games looked on the set, so I exchanged it for a 36" Sony XBR Wega 4x3 set, and it will let you watch dvds anamoprhically enhanced, while also upconverting 720p to 1080i. [​IMG]
     
  9. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Cool, thanks!
     
  10. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Before you choose between 4x3 and 16x9, I suggest following this current thread first, if you haven't already:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=114367
    Also, if you're choosing RPTV, read the "merged burn-in thread" at the top of this forum plus this current one:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=116662
    A brief synopsis of these burn-in threads is that you should be careful about any kind of fixed images w/ an RPTV, including program guides, TV logos AND the grey side bars in 4x3 mode as well as black bars(!). Keeping the contrast low, say 40% or less, is a must w/ RPTVs! I think this issue is especially relevant for you since you watch 80% broadcast programming and is actually still considering direct-views vs RPTV. Also, as I have posted in the 4x3 vs 16x9 thread above, the burn-in issue can matter even in choosing between the two form factors although nobody seems to think about it.
    _Man_
     
  11. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    One more thing. A thorough ISF job on an RPTV will run you more than just $250. Think more like $400+ depending on exactly what's done. If it's just $250, I'd do it in a heartbeat for my new Panny. [​IMG]
    Something else to consider since you're probably an audiophile using the TV in the same setup for music. [​IMG] Some TVs are more shallow than others, so that might factor into your acoustics for music listening. For example, the Toshiba's are generally more shallow than all their competition.
    _Man_
     
  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Man- You're awesome. I think the $250 ISF price is a few years old... :b
    Depth *is* an issue. OK, I'll go check out those links. Methinks I need to start cruising this forum to continue to learn stuff.
    One more question for now, there are no direct view TVs that support line doubling/progressive scan? Or maybe I'd have to go direct view/HDTV?
    I certainly know a lot more than I did. I appreciate you being objective in terms of what brands you suggest for the different advantages/disadvantage. Most people think what they have is the only thing others should consider... [​IMG]
     
  13. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Ha ha! Glad to be of help. [​IMG]
    And do cruise away! For one thing, methinks this site is a must to checkout:
    http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/index.htm
    Since depth is an issue, you might also want to consider saving up for a front projection system. That's what Doug_B, another audiophile, did recently.
    Me? I can't afford to be a real audiophile. [​IMG] Wish I could afford the matching pieces for a complete Vandersteen HT, but then I'd need a better home to be able to crank them up. [​IMG]
    _Man_
     

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