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New 4K not sure it's better than my... (1 Viewer)

HDNutts2010

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So I've been wanting to step up to a 4k LED for a while and finally found what I felt was a good model at a reasonable price. So I picked up a new 75" LG 75UH8500 Super Ultra HD 3D webOS 3.0 Smart TV. that I will be replacing my current TV with which is a 65" Panasonic TC-P65VT60 65-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV. So with having a plasma for a little more than 3 years, I'm a little skeptical that I'm going to see much picture quality improvement with the new LED 4K TV.

So I un-boxed the new LG, hung it on my wall and then went to the net and found some user posted calibration settings. Went back to the TV and made some adjustments and off I went. Using my Time Warner Cisco HD DVR box for watching TV. I watch some of Game 1 of the World Series, watch some news channels, and several other HD channels. Some times the shows looked really good and sometimes not so good. Some shows seemed clear, and others would all the sudden look a bit noisy or to edgy. News channels probably look the worse, while Discovery Ch. and Science Ch. seemed to look really good, all but the area around the channel logo that's located in the lower corner of the screen. That actually seemed to have square'ish looking false images around the letters and image. I know Time Warner is a compressed video signal and that is probably the biggest issues with the quality, but I also decided to load in some Blu-ray's. Blu-ray's seemed to look pretty good on the LG, but I'm not sure they look any better than on my plasma.

When the new LG is displaying a scene that is mostly very dark or black (none of the "black" actually look "Black", but more of a toned dark grey) when something is displayed in the scene such as a light or a person starts walking into the scene, the screen will white washed on the 1/3 side where the object is while the rest of the screen remains relatively dark. This is actually very noticeable and looks kind of bad when it happens. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that the TV really uses an IPS panel that is LED edge lit or what. I feel I'm going to have to do a side by side test with new and old to see what it really looks like compared to each other.

Any ideas of what to do to improve the picture quality?

Thanks
 

Race Bannon

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If it were me, I would want to get a 4K Blu-ray player, buy some 4K, UHD Blu-rays, and see how that looks. It doesn't sound like any of the content you checked out would be 4K, so you're not really judging the new TV by the one thing that should be noticeably different.
 

HDNutts2010

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So I agree with your logic... but 25% of the time I'm watch Blu-ray movies, but 80% of the time I'm watching TV, sports, documentaries, shows etc. So I'd hate to think that 80% of what I will watch most often will look no better or may be a bit worse than when watching on my plasma. I agree 4K will probably look sick awesome! I am picking up the Panasonic 4K player this weekend and will check out 4K Blu-ray's!

The two attached photos show the example of the white wash areas on the panel. I caught the photo right as the Paramount symbol started to roll on to the screen, original and red circle areas I'm pointing out.

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Edwin-S

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If 80% of your viewing is TV, sports, etc. then I think you are going to have accept that most of it will not look much better than on your 1080p, at least until more and more content ends up being broadcast or streamed in 4K. Even then, I think a person is going to have to sit closer to the TV in order to tell any difference resolution-wise.

I'm waiting for a LG 65ES9600 that I ordered, so I can see if an OLED is going to impress me any more than my Panny VT30 does. I think the OLED is going to have a more impressive black level, but I doubt I will see some sea change in detail between the two at the distance I'm seated at.

Edit: That should have been EG, not ES.
 
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Edwin-S

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Also, since you are used to the black levels capable of being delivered by plasma, the only LED-based tech that is even going to come close to those levels is OLED.
 

Robert_Zohn

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Calibration will help, but this is how edge lit panels look when you display a solid dark pattern in a room with low ambient light. You also may be in the vivid or standard mode and all TVs perform best in low ambient light with a lower luminance video mode, like "movie".
 

Edwin-S

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That seriously looks like nasty edge lighting issues. I wonder if that is even fixable using the TV controls? Someone with calibration experience might be able to tell you if that can be fixed.
 

Edwin-S

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I'm sure glad I never jumped on board when edge-lit TVs first started being marketed. It looks like there is no way to get around the inherent weakness of that tech, no matter how many gens go by.
 

Matt Hough

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Have you got local dimming turned on with your TV? It should be on the medium setting at least. I have an OLED so I don't have the varying lighting you're showing us, but when I was out scouting TVs before I bought, I looked at a lot of edge lit LCDs, and I know you've got to have local dimming turned on for them to have a chance of looking decent.
 

HDNutts2010

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From all I have been researching, I unfortunately feel it is most likely the IPS panel / Edge Lit causing this issue.

Here are my settings:

I started off with 'Expert (Dark Room)' picture mode

PICTURE Settings:
Smart picture mode: off
Picture mode settings: Expert Dark Room
Aspect Ratio: Original or 16:9 Just Scan: On
Energy saving: off
Eye comfort mode: off

Picture mode: Expert dark room
Backlight: 75
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 50
H Sharpness: 0
V Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 0


Dynamic contrast: off
Super resolution: off
Color gamut: Normal (Wide?)
Edge enhancer: off
Color filter: off
Gamma: BT 1886

White Balance
Color Temp: Warm2
Method: 20 points IRE (2 point)
Pattern: Outer
IRE: 100 (Point)
Target Luminosity: 130
Adjust Luminosity: 0
Red: 0 (-2)
Green: 0
Blue: +3

Color Management:
Color: Red | Green | Blue | Cyan | Magenta | Yellow
Sat: 0 | 0 | 0 |0 | 0 | 0
Tint: 0 | 0 | 0 |0 | 0 | 0
Luminosity: 0 | -1| 5 |0 | 2 | 0

Picture Options
Noise reduction: Off
MPEG noise reduction: Off
Black level: Low
Real cinema: On
Motion eye care: off
LED local dimming: off
True Motion: User | De-Judder 0 | De-Blur 10
 

Joseph Bolus

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Hmmm ... Well Matt Hough just stated that you need to have local dimming switched on, and your posted settings show it off, so you might want to start there.
 

HDNutts2010

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Right, I did change local dimming settings to medium, tried all values actually, but unfortunately it didn't improve the washed out areas when viewing in a dark room, blur-ray displayed in letter box (bars at top and bottom of screen). Actual through, with my settings above, my HD TV channels look really good, as they typically fill the screen. When I have the room lit, the white washed areas are not as noticeable watching a Blu-ray, but I don't really like lights on when watching movies. I will keep watching and will also compare to my plasma this weekend, get them side by side and put on the save Blu-ray and see if it is something I'll be able to get used to. If not I'll return the TV and maybe spend a bit more and look at the Sony XBR75X940D... I'll keep this post updated with my progress.
 

Worth

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How is local dimming on an edge-lit set even possible?
 

Dave Moritz

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http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/

Also don't count on every channel being equal on cable as there is a big difference from channel to channel depending on amount of compression used. As long as there is not a defect in your display somewhere just using a high quality blu-ray player with a calibrated display should let you see a better picture with your 4K vs a standard 1080p display especially the closer you get to the display. A 4K blu-ray player would show off that display the best and Oppo will be coming out with a 4K blu-ray soon as they have had a demo model at the industry shows already.
 

Edwin-S

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Right, I did change local dimming settings to medium, tried all values actually, but unfortunately it didn't improve the washed out areas when viewing in a dark room, blur-ray displayed in letter box (bars at top and bottom of screen). Actual through, with my settings above, my HD TV channels look really good, as they typically fill the screen. When I have the room lit, the white washed areas are not as noticeable watching a Blu-ray, but I don't really like lights on when watching movies. I will keep watching and will also compare to my plasma this weekend, get them side by side and put on the save Blu-ray and see if it is something I'll be able to get used to. If not I'll return the TV and maybe spend a bit more and look at the Sony XBR75X940D... I'll keep this post updated with my progress.

Your experience pretty well dovetails with the observations in the review I linked to. Their conclusion was that the set was a pretty good TV in lighter rooms and with TV shows and sports, but suffered somewhat poorly in dark room viewing. The local dimming was rated as mostly ineffective.

I have to wonder myself how local dimming actually works on edge-lit sets.
 

HDNutts2010

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Interesting enough, I had a buddy load a Blu-ray into his Samsung UN75JU7100FXZA 75" Ultra 4K and this is what his looks like, also he purchased it from Best Buy and he paid for them to come out and calibrate it. His might seem a bit move even, but none the less it is noticeable and not "dark / black". So I think his does appear to look similar to mine in a totally dark room, but when the room is lit, it is hardly noticeable as is mine.

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Edwin-S

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I wonder if a bias light behind the set would help to alleviate the washed out blacks by raising the ambient light in the room by a small amount. I'm thinking of trying it myself if I can find the right colour temperature bulb and figure out a way to mount it behind the set.
 

HDNutts2010

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Edwin-S, Funny you mention that idea... I at one point owned a Wolf SDC-8 Projector and had it paired with a Screen Innovations Black Diamond 110" LED back light screen, and I remembered how much it helped the eyes on the big 110" screen I had. So the backlit idea came to me yesterday as well. Probably as you were typing the above. I have a few accessory LED tape lights and decided to try it last night. Just a quick try, it does improve the washed areas I think. These LED tape lights I currently have are not remote control, but I know where I can get some that are. These will allowing selecting 24,000 colors/tones, and up to 5 different brightness/dime levels. This idea might just work out. But in the back of my mind I think am I shorting the length of the race to compensate for the runners that can't go the distance... meaning am I circumventing a problem just to accept the problem????

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