Lost season 3 discussion.... (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Cooper]

Speaking of deeper meaning, i've also noticed that this show has a habit of not having throw away lines. I think that in this episode, when they are going to the flame, and Ben says about Mikael "He never has his walkie on him!", that it is something important. It seems like a throw away line, but I don't think so. I think that maybe Mikael doesn't have his walkie on him, because it is the one that Paulo found in the Pearl. This would mean that Miakel was also in the Pearl. What does that imply? Who knows! I'm just throwing that out there.

 

[Dan Mc]

Good catch about the radio, it can now be assumed that Mikhial's radio was destroyed in the explosion, but instead the losties can eavesdrop on the others communication.

With all this focus now on pregnancies and childbirth, anyone think Kate may be carrying a little Sawyer-bun in the oven?

 

[Louis C]

 

[Sean Bryan]

No. Last week we weren't 100% sure what the deal was with the handcuffs, though we knew she had the key, Kate found out about the key, and Juliete told Kate she "did it" so Kate would think they were in it together and she wouldn't be left behind.

There was some wiggle room as far as what actually went down (was she gassed and handcuffed by the Others but left a key, was she gassed at all, did they really leave her behind, is it all a plan to insert her as a mole?).

So based on what she said to Jack, it should now be clear that when she told Kate that she did it so she wouldn't be left behind, that included dragging her into the woods and handcuffing them together, and that she was left behind but wasn't gassed at all.

Her conversation with Ben further hit this again when they were talking and reviewing the plan (drag Austin into the jungle and handcuff yourself to her, and if she catchs you in the lie, admit to it and say it was so she wouldn't be left behind).

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I was very disappointed.

A great story unfolded about Juliette. We were made
to feel sorry for her.

I soooo much wanted to trust Juliette and I did right up to
the end. When they uncovered the fact that she was a mole
I was really pissed.

 

[MarkMel]

I am in the camp that she is/or will be a double agent. And I think that the only one that she's working for is herself.

 

[Rain]

I'm inclined to agree with this. But I do suspect that she is developing some very real feelings for Jack as well.

 

[blobula]

I wonder when they are going to focus in on Sun being pregnant. That has got to have some meaning I think.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Well, there really wasn't a "wink and a smile" as you say. He was pretty stone faced just as he was before he said it. When he said "We'll find more mothers. Maybe there's even one on that plane", I took that as saying "maybe there will be, we'll have to see. hopefully if there is and this can help us".

Plus, knowing that there was for sure a pregnant woman on the plane and having involvement in bringing the plane to the Island just doesn't make any sense according to the answers we've been given so far. If he was involved in bringing the plane to them and therefore knew there was a pregnant woman on board, why did he need Ethan and Goodwin to bring him "lists in three days"? If he was involved in bringing this plane and these people to them, then he'd have that info already. And why would he tell Mikael to get detailed dossiers on all the passengers (after they learn what flight it was)? Again, he'd have that info already. Etc.. Plus, them bringing the plane to the Island would have depended on Desmond not pushing the button when he did, and that situation seemed fairly complicated. Also factor in that it seems as if The Others didn't fully understand what entering the numbers did and what the effects of not entering them (and the subsequent fail safe being turned) would be.

I know there is some misdirection that'll take place in this show, but for the most part when we have been dying for answers over the course of these almost 3 years and we are given some within the story, I think it is most reasonable to take those answers for what they are. Because it's not like there aren't other major questions (and new questions) to still be answered. If the answers we've been given so far aren't answers at all, then that's a very bad thing for this show.

I look at it like this. This show has lots of mystery and questions that have been raised. It is no secret that not having any answers had been extremely frustrating to many viewers and likely affected ratings starting with the second season. The producers have said that they clearly can't answer the big questions until the end of the show but also talk about how various answers are being given about many things as well, and that we are going to "learn more about this and learn more about that, etc...". So if it turns out that the "answers" to some of these questions we have been given aren't answers at all and are just more lies then that is just really bad, and I think it would do much more harm than good with viewer loyalty and ratings.

Why did the plane crash on the Island? It seems it was due to Desmond not entering the numbers on time. Seemingly unrelated to what was going on with The Others.

Why do The Others take children? They can't reproduce (though we don't know how long this has been a problem).

Why was Juliet recruited by The Others? She had made a breakthrough in achieving life were life couldn't exist (pregnancy in a woman who's reproductive organs had been ravaged by chemo), and they hoped she'd be able to help with their problem.

How do The Others know so much about the survivors? They used their considerable resources to assemble detailed dossiers on the passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 (though there's some debate about whether they'd be able to get all the info they have that way, and maybe some other more mysterious source of info has added to this. maybe)

Why was Claire abducted by The Others? They wanted to take samples and run tests. Juliet believes that the problem with the Island and pregnancy starts at conception. So doing extensive tests on someone who was pregnant but conceived off the Island was very important to her/their work (and if she was having problems, they'd try to see if Juliet's research so far could help her). Also, they'd have wanted to take her baby if they could.

When these episodes, stories, events, and character discussions give us some of these answers, I think it is best to go with them. If something turns out to be a misdirection, so be it. But everything we've learned so far can't be all a lie, or we've been watching this show for almost 3 years and learned nothing.



I think that fate, ultimately, is the reason for some of the coincidences, right things happening at the right time, and past relationships here. Or perhaps some property of the Island itself, or some combination of these.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I can see what you are saying, but I think you can say just as easily that it was the reaction and instructions of a smart man and a good leader.

Also, they are probably at least somewhat aware of the history of the Island having people (old ships, not so old ships, air balloons, small planes, small boats, etc...) "being drawn to" and "winding up there". So I think it is reasonable to think that a man like Ben would have given some thought to what should be done if ever, or whenever, something like that happens.

 

[Sean Bryan]

And after thinking about this some more, I feel pretty strongly that Juliet isn't totally invested in Ben's goals. After all, she did try to get Jack to kill him, she desperately wants to get off the Island, and I'd bet she still has doubts about being able to trust Ben. But the bottom line is that ultimately Ben is still her best chance of getting off the Island, so she's got to keep herself in his good graces.

And remember (Ron, this is for you) just because she is still working with the Others and going along with Ben's mole plan (whatever that is) doesn't mean that she is "bad". Of course, things may develop that will change this, but I think that whatever she is doing is because she wants to get off the Island and back to her sister. She probably also hopes that actually solving the reproduction problem will get her to a point where Ben would be willing to let her leave.

Unless she kills one of the survivors, there's still plenty of room for her to be a character you can like.

 

[Harpozep]

Well, however Juliette turns out, the Others can never be seen as "good" in my eyes. They simply are deceitful kidnapping thugs at best, and who knows at worst.

NOTHING they can say or do will undo the manner in which they treated the people who fell from the sky. Yes,, all the Oceanic flight people seem flawed to very flawed. This does not negate or justify the surreptitious manner in which the Other's have intimidated, shot, strung up, kidnapped and otherwise harmed the Losties.
All the Others who have been offed by out Lostie friends were a rational response to what the Oceanic survivors had been put through.

Nothing the Others do can make me sympathetic to them or their cause. Juliette is self serving scum. Being manipulated by Ben has rubbed off on her too well.

Sayid and Sawyer better get some questions answered soon. I don't care if they are murderous torturers They, and we deserve some answers that don't contain three more questions. I don't know if Lost can provide any answers like that. It is not in their manifest!

 

[TravisR]

I'll give you that she may be planning on screwing Ben over but it generates more suspense if the audience knows that Juliet is bad as they see her become more trusted by almost all of the survivors (I'm sure Sawyer, Kate and Sayid aren't going to be convinced). Paraphrasing Alfred Hitchcock, if you have a bomb suddenly explode, you'll surprise the audience but if you spend more time where the audience knows there's a bomb underneath a table while the characters onscreen go about their business as usual, it's way more suspenseful. I think that's the move that they're making with Juliet working for The Others.

I do think the only reason that Juliet is helping The Others at this point is because she wants to get off the island and they're her only shot at that and she'll do whatever she needs to do including betraying Ben or the survivors.

 

[JohnS]

Someone posted this over at my Lost website.

They say that Ben lied to Juliet about her sisters cancer coming back.
Ben used his own cancer results.

 

[Holadem]

Is that picture supposed to illustrate your point?

--
H

 

[pitchman]

On the chart next to SEX: it reads "MALE."

 

[Sean Bryan]

Ben showed those results to Juliet TWO AND A HALF YEARS before his X-ray diagnosis.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Ben lying to Juliet about her sister's cancer returning is one possibility I've been thinking about.

However, I find it hard to believe these people, with the resources they have, would go through all the trouble of making fake results (that she would examine) to convince her and use the wrong sex. Also find it hard to believe that Juliet wouldn't see it (reasonable to assume she wanted to look at the results in more detail "off camera").

So it may just be a production gaff. If it can happen in 200 million dollar movies, it can happen in an episode of LOST. Or it could mean something. But either way, like I said above, I don't buy for a second that it was Ben's results since that took place 2½ years before the 815 crashed. (Also, I don't see Ben as 5'11" and 197/187) lbs)

Funny that someone goes through the effort to comb over shots in such detail to look for clues yet comes up with a theory that completely ignores what was actually said in the episode (regarding it being Ben's results).

 

[JohnS]

Yeah, I forgot to list that the results are for a male that is 187 pounds and 5 foot 11.

also when Juliet is confronted by Sawyer and Sayid, Juliet mentions about Sayids situation, What happened to Sayid in Basra?

I'm pretty sure we haven't seen that yet.
So maybe in Season 4?

 

[Sean Bryan]

And, also, if I'm not mistaken, the picture being shown is an electrocardiogram. Not a cancer test result. Maybe he had some other test results thrown all in that one folder?