Lost season 3 discussion.... (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

The whispers that Sawyer heard in the jungle 'knew' that he killed Duckett so maybe The Others found out from whatever the whispers are.

 

[Brian Timmermeister]

Why did Juliet wake up IN the submarine? It could be just coincidence that she woke up just as the submarine got to the dock but I don't think so.

She didn't wake up in the sub underway and if she was still unconcious when they got there, then there would be no reason not to carry her out so she could awaken in the bed in her new quarters. They had obviously carried her on board why not off?

I don't think that she got to the island by sub. I think they got her there by some other means, then carried her aboard the sub still unconcious so she could wake there and "know" that she had gotten there by sub.

That's my theory, the only thing I can't work out is why they would do this. Maybe I'm just thinking too hard and a little paranoid but this show brings that out by all the twists and misleading info that it presents.

 

[mylan]

Or do like me and glance at the time of the post before reading, this is how I get back to the first unread sometimes.

 

[Holadem]

It's been a while, but wasn't Sawyer deported? They wouldn't let a murder suspect go.

--
H

 

[TravisR]

He was deported for head butting some Australian government official. Although he claims that the government guy started it.

 

[Arild]

You are correct.

 

[Rain]

Just because Sawyer didn't get nailed for the murder before leaving Australia, doesn't mean there was not a subsequent investigation in which he was the prime suspect.

As for Juliet, I'm not so sure she is a mole. Did she go along with Ben's plan to support it or because she saw her chance to get away from the Others and perhaps get closer to Jack.

Was her scene at the end, with the gaze into the distance and the assertive tying of the knot saying "I'm gonna get you people" or "This is where I belong now."

Ask yourself this, if Juliet really is a mole, would they have given it away so soon by showing us that conversation with Ben? I'm guessing red herring on that one.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I can't imagine that it was easy for them to carry an unconscious body down the hatch and ladder. I think that is what Ethan was referring to when he said she shouldn't have downed the sedative so soon. Probably even harder to carry an unconscious body up a ladder and hatch. Seems more realistic to just let her wake up and climb out on her own.

 

[Holadem]

I find the bit about Ethan improvising pretty curious. I forget the exact wording but to hear Juliet, it sounded like he took maters into his own hands by kidnapping Claire.

But then again, Juliet story could be mostly BS made digestible by giving it a backbone of verifyable truths -- the best way to lie.

Patrick, never seen Gia.

--
H

 

[Matt^Brown]

I assumed this was a complete lie that she used to cover for the fact that they poisoned Clair. If she admitted that she was part of that then she would have never gained their trust.

Gia is an interesting movie.

 

[Louis C]

Thanks! I was starting to wonder if anyone noticed that part.

Apart from the 'brainwashing' scene during the Kate & Sawyer escape episode, this is the first specific reference to Jacob I am aware of - and yes, I agree the implication is he is the real leader, and has some kind of supernatural power. I think both Locke and Walt are somehow tied in to the same power, but I can't figure out how or why.

Incredible episode, and season 3 overall so far is really great.

 

[alan halvorson]

What does anyone think of the sub? Doesn't appear to any kind of ocean going vehicle to me. I sure wouldn't want to cross a substantial part of the Pacific in it. It must of been launched from yet another close island, or a ship. Furthermore, how could it have been the only way off? Recall that there was an airdrop of food for the hatch residents.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

There have been several direct and indirect references to Jacob. I think the first direct reference was in episode 6 of this season when Jack is operating on Ben, Picket was complaining that Ben shouldn't trust him because he wasn't on Jacob's list. Then we see the screen in the brainwashing room that says "God loves you like he loves Jacob", and Karl repeats this line while on the boat ride back to the main island with Kate and Sawyer. Finally there is Ben's line to Juliet this episode.

There have been a few indirect references to Jacob mostly along the lines of one of the others saying "You don't know what he'll do to me!" and then the lostie says "What, Ben?", and then the other says "Ben? No..." and then they convienently get cut off for one reason or another.

 

[Derek_J]

How long was it till the emp? A month? He could have become a suspect during that time, and there would be no way for him to turn on his associate after boarding the flight.

 

[TravisR]

I would think Juliet was playing The Others too but her main goal is to get off the island. Even with communications messed up, The Others are her only shot at that. As for giving it away so early, they may want to create the tension that will come with having the viewer know that Juliet is bad but the survivors all start to trust her.

 

[Ron Gilbert]

As you point out, some of what Juliet says matches up with what we've seen already. In "Maternity Leave", I seem to recall that Ethan first brought Claire to the medical station on his own. Later, he was chastised by Tom for deviating from the plan, which was to simply observe, make a list, and then bring Claire in. Ethan explained that he was about to be discovered, that they "had the plane manifest" or something to that effect, so he had to improvise. Later in that episode, other "Others" arrived or were shown in their medical gear. Another thing is, Ethan took Claire outside the medical hatch, and told her how sorry he was, because she was going to get sick and die but not to worry because her son would be well raised. Or words to that effect. So the serum part may be true and yet not true at the same time.

One more thing - there was an article published just yesterday (on MSN or Slate, I think) about some school, The University of Georgia maybe, developing a small, nanotech scale chip that could be implanted and powered by blood flow, like a water mill or dam. So the science on display last night may not be too far-fetched.

 

[Sean Bryan]

This was yet another great episode. I hope the next (last) five keep up this kind of momentum.

Anyone notice the music played with the preview for next weeks episode? It was the re-done requiem for a dream music used for The Two Towers trailer. Not relevant to anything, just cool to hear it in a LOST preview.

So what did we learn in this episode?

Well, the reason that the Others take children is now pretty clear. The Others are not able to have children on Mystery Island. They were interested in Juliet because of her breakthrough in achieving pregnancy in an infertile woman. So they recruited her to help with this problem. They seem to be interested in grabbing as many children as they can because they want to have "new Others" as time goes on, and they can't grow their own.

Ben told Juliet that they can cure cancer and no one on the island has cancer. Is this because of the Island or because they can cure it with technology developed using the Island's properties? Well, if Juliet's sister was cured in America, then a technology (treatment) would have been used (unless you think that Jacob can simply "heal"). But Rose was dying from cancer, and when she arrived on the Island she felt that it was gone, and she has remained healthy for about 3 months now. As far as we know, she had no "treatment" (just like Locke). Just being on the Island seemed to do it for her (and him).

So we were "told" that there is no cancer on the Island by Ben, and we have "seen" Rose seemingly go into remission. So the fact that Ben developed cancer (a tumor) is very interesting. Finding that out, Juliet immediately assumed that Ben was lying about her sister being cured (because if he has cancer then their ability to prevent and cure it seems to be false). But then he showed her the video feed of her sister and nephew (Julian) and she saw that she was alive and well.

Possibilities?

Ben lied and her sister's cancer never returned. The medical records were fake, so they never had to "heal" her. But the lie kept Juliet in line.

Ben lied about them curing her sister. She died, and Ben arranged for an elaborate fake video to be made which looked like her sister to convince Juliet that he told the truth.

Ben told the truth. They can cure cancer, and Jacob cured Juliet's sister. But now that Ben developed cancer and they couldn't simply "cure it", something is specifically affecting (or targeting) Ben. Is this something some force of the Island itself for some reason, is it possibly Jacob for some reason?

How do the Other's know so much about the survivors?

Clearly, The Others put together detailed dossiers on all of the survivors of the plane crash (which they apparently had no hand in directing to the island). A list of the survivors was obtained, and they have (had) means to communicate with the outside world, and used their resources there to compile this info. However, some of the info they have still seems unlikely to be obtained through even a detailed background check (Sawyer's murder of the man he thought was the real Sawyer for example). So as far as I'm concerned, their knowledge of the survivors and the mechanics of how they got it has been basically answered, but there are still some questions about how they were able to obtain some of that info. At least, it is more than a "public records search". The Other's must have operatives off the Island with impressive investigative skills and resources.


Who's this "Jacob"?

Previous dialog has suggested that the Others have a leader above Ben Linus. And I believe the name Jacob has been mentioned at least once before. The brainwashing screen showed a message, "God loves you like he loves Jacob", or something long those lines. And this episode refers to Jacob again. And this makes it clear that he is a great importance. Ben told Juliet that Jacob would cure her sister himself. So Jacob is someone who has been leaving and returning to the Island. I bet some people want to believe that Christian Shepard is Jacob. But I'm not sold on that. It is something I can keep in the back of my head as a remote possibility, but right now I'm not buying it. Still, I'm looking forward to learning more about Jacob at some point. But depending on who he is, it may be something that isn't revealed until the show's end game.


A question left open from last week was nicely answered this week. No question now about how Juliet became cuffed to Kate. Last week, we were wondering if she was gassed and left behind by the Others who dragged her and Kate out in the Jungle but left Juliet the key (or maybe someone sympathetic slipped it in her pocket, etc...). Or maybe she was gassed but came to and cuffed herself to Kate. Some were wondering if it was ALL a rouse. How much can she be trusted, etc...?

Earlier in the episode, she tells Jack that she cuffed herself to Kate and dragged her into the Jungle because she was afraid they'd leave her behind too. But by they end of the episode, we further learn that this was all part of a plan discussed by her and Ben to infiltrate the survivors' camp.

And they arranged for Claire to become sick so Juliet could fix her and earn some trust. For what purpose do they want her there? Ben said he'd see her in a week. Is she supposed to do something within that week and then go back to them, or is it more of a weekly "check in/report"? Is Juliet going along with Ben because she is totally invested in his goals, or is she just doing the only thing she can and playing along while hoping to find an "out"?

Now we better understand why Ethan/The Others were after Claire when she was pregnant. I think Juliet's story about what Ethan was doing and why was partly true and partly fabrication to cover something they don't want the survivors to know.

It has been a while since I saw the episode, but in Claire's flashbacks to when she was abducted and taken to the medical hatch wasn't she told that the injections were necessary for her and her baby's health? Interesting that they gave her an "implant" that they could active to make her sick.

And speaking of implants. I'm wondering if maybe the Other's have implants that when scanned will make old smokey back off. The "scan" of Juliet last episode and the way it shot outta there right after it makes me wonder about this. And now, of course, I have more reason to doubt that the Other's don't know what it is. Last week, I was ready to believe that they know it exists but know nothing about what it is except that the sonic fence keeps it at bay. But that "flashy scan" of Juliet followed by it taking off definitely meant something significant. Now this week learning that there was a plan in place in infiltrate the survivors and that Juliet was lying and giving selective truths to them (and with the talk of implants), I think it is possible they may know more about it. But maybe not. And I definitely don't think they "control" it.

After seeing this episode I'm reminded again that The Others will go to great lengths to guard their secrets. When they recruit someone to the island, they (or at least Ben) have no intention of ever letting them leave. When a plane crashes, they want to infiltrate the survivors and find out about them, but even when they actively abduct them they put on costumes to give the impression that they are "hick-ish" island dwellers instead of an organized scientific research team.

Thinking about that, I keep coming back to Ben letting Michael and Walt go. I'm really dying to learn if they indeed got off the island and back to the world. Maybe Ben feels confident that Michael wouldn't tell anyone about the Island because Michael committed two murders there. But still, if he really let him go, that had to be really hard for him to do.


Also found it interesting that Juliet and Goodwin were an item.


It will be interesting to see how Rousseau made out. I assume she just hung back in the jungle and watched what was going on at the Other's village and followed them when they left. I think she'll likely be involved in some of these last five episodes when the story goes back to Locke/The Others and Alex.

 

[Ron Gilbert]

Another thing about Sawyer being investigated and how the Others could have known about it. A man, non-native Australian, was murdered, so that could have made the crime higher profile than it otherwise would have been. Do we know what Saywer did with the gun he used to kill that guy? And didn't Saywer acquire the gun from a local Australian gun dealer or garden-variety thug? So maybe there was an old-fashioned police investigation, and the trail led back to Sawyer. Or, Jacob used his physic powers. Or, when the Others had Walt in their possession, they used his physic powers. Or, when Cindy the stewardess told Jack they were brought to Hydra island to watch, she didn't mean Juliet's trial, but watch the world. You guys get the drift....

 

[Joe_H]

You know, I was surprised to find out that Juliet's sister actually did have a baby, I thought maybe they were blackmailing the sister to force her to say that, or something along those lines.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Could have, but it seems unlikely.

Think about it, what connection did Sawyer have to that man. None. Zip. Nadda.

Sawyer didn't know they guy. The guy didn't know Sawyer. It was one total stranger being asasinated by another total stranger with no motive (sure Sawyer had his own motive, but it ultimately didn't apply to this guy). There's no connection between them to investigate or find.

Sawyer was basically used as hit-man by someone who wanted this guy dead. Hibbs (or the T-1000) lied to Sawyer and told him this was the man he was looking for, when in reality it was just someone Hibbs wanted dead because he didn't pay him the money he owed him. Sawyer flies to the country, buys a gun from an underworld type, and then kills him, at night, in the rain.

There are a few ways I could see them being led to Sawyer:

They find the gun, identify it as the murder weapon, find Sawyer's prints on it, and ID Sawyer as the prime suspect. The problem with that is that I'd imagine a man like Sawyer would have been smart enough to wipe his prints off the gun before he got rid of it, and he would have gotten rid of it carefully as well. And he definitely didn't leave it at the crime scene, he put it in his pants after he used it.

They investigate who the dude had ties to, get to Hibbs, and Hibbs gives them Sawyer. But that seems a huge stretch and doesn't make much sense. Firstly, Hibbs is in another country. Secondly, there is no actual evidence that can put this on Hibbs, except Sawyers' confession. So I doubt Hibbs would give then any info in the remote possibility that they talked to him. Especially not info that could lead them to Sawyer who in turn would lead them back to Hibbs.

Some physical evidence was found at the scene that leads to Sawyer. This is doubtful since it was raining hard. Plus, Sawyer was basically in and out and had no ties to the man or the area, so how are they going to compare anything they find like a boot print, DNA, etc.. to him (since he and his boots aren't in the country anymore).

A video camera or eye witness saw the murder. Both are unlikely since it was raining, night, and murder scene was kinda out of the way. Definitely didn't look like a place that has video surveillance. And what if someone did see it? No one knew Sawyer since he wasn't from around there, so no one could ID him. At best they would have a vague description or a police sketch. And again, as the scene was portrayed, it seems highly unlikely that there was anyone around.

But the most significant thing is, as I mentioned, thee was no relationship or connection between these two men. So it would take some pretty significant and conclusive evidence to actually lead them to Sawyer.

There may have been, and that's that. But based on what I've said here I still think it seems extremely unlikely.