LaserDisc > E80 HD > DVD-R dubbing question

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Dave Danek, May 3, 2004.

  1. Dave Danek

    Dave Danek Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone have tips on the best way to dub a 2 disc LD to DVD-R as seamlessly as possible? I'm still new to the E80 and I can only think of two ways to dub LDs for DVD-R backup.

    1. in real time to DVD-R hitting pause at the side flip and disc change. . . UGH!

    2. transferring to the HD then using shorten segment to remove the side flip (quick on my CLD-99). transfer the second disc to a separate program and joining the two segments together in a playlist for dubbing to DVD-R.

    Neither approach seems ideal -- for #1, don't have the time to baby a transfer (I do a lot of overnight transfers to the HD). For #2, in my experience (novice) in editing down TV shows on the E80 HD, there is always about a 2 second pause at the point where the program is shortened. I can live with that as it's still a bit shorter than the side flip alone, but wondering if there is a better, more seamless way. Loved the flying erase head I had on my old JVC 4700 SVHS since I could really get a seamless dub of a LD. . .

    Lovin' the E80 BTW!!!! Best $382 I've spent on electronics in a long time!!!!

    Thanks again!
    Dave
     
  2. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    I record a lot of laser discs to DVD-R. I've always dubbed two-side discs to two DVD-R's. This results in the highest quality, but, of course, requires a disc change. If you insist on the program being on one disc, you can do that but if the program length is longer than about 2:20, you will lose resolution (see manual).

    1.) Determine program length (add total time of all sides). If Side 1 is 55 minutes, Side 2 is 50 minutes and Side 3 is 25 minutes, your total is 130 minutes, or 2:10.

    2.) Using the FR recording option, record each disc using the total program length. You can stop the recording process anytime after the last side of each disc is recorded.

    3.) Divide the excess from each title and delete it.

    4.) Edit out the side breaks. Alternatively, divide the title at the side breaks. This is what I do, labeling each title "Side 1", "Side 2", etc.

    5.) Dub the titles in order to DVD-R using High Speed.

    I've never used Playlist so I can't tell you if that's a better way to go.

    I suppose this may vary by machine, but I've never experienced anything longer than a brief pause in the area where I've shortened the program or between titles. I like the idea of making each LD side its own title because than I can skip from one to the other easier.

    The only way to absolutely eliminate pauses between titles is to edit them on your PC. If this interests you, I suggest trotting over to the DVD Recorder forum of AVS Forum where you can find out how to do this.
     
  3. Jeffrey Taylor

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    I have also finished dubbing my laser collection to DVD using the HS-80, and with double disc titles I generally record one disc at a time, edit out the excess (side flips, etc), and then dub using playlist. I label it part 1 and part 2 on the dub. On playback when part 1 ends there is only a momentary pause as part 2 starts--nothing more than you would get editing out a commercial. Works great. I don't think you could get a better job if you babysat the original transfer and kept rolling.
     
  4. Ken Chan

    Ken Chan Producer

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    If you're going to use a PC, we have a long-running thread over in the Computers and HTPC area that discusses this, including doing an inverse-telecine, which will allow you to reduce the data by 20% (thereby increasing total time by 25%) and optionally converting the video to anamorphic.

    Of course, it isn't nearly as convenient as using a recorder, but if you're looking for a hobby....
     
  5. Dave Danek

    Dave Danek Stunt Coordinator

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    to quote the legend, "whoa". i'm fairly well set in my hobbies of buying and burning dvds (burning using fairly simple no brainer software packages). not that i couldn't be tempted by the anamorphic "encoding" of LBX LDs (sweet!!), it's just that my mind has been turned to mush by too many wiggles and baby einstein videos. . .

    thanks for the tips. i'll primarily be converting to one disc for portability and ease of play - no dvd changer, yet. . . so the FR trick and SP mode will do. i guess i'll just deal with the hesitation at the side flips and disc changes. while not as perfect as a flying erase head, still an improvement over the SVHS afterall. . .
     
  6. Ernest

    Ernest Supporting Actor

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    I have recorded many laserdisc to DVD-R with great results. My method takes more time but the results are well worth the extra effort.

    This method is used for transferring "Letterbox" laserdisc re-formated to 16x9 to increase the verticial resolution. It doesn't have any effect on the audio but it makes a difference in the picture quality.

    Movies that are less than 2 1/2 hours long are recorded to a single DVD-R. Those longer than 2 1/2 are recorded to two DVD-R's.

    1. Record the laserdisc to a DVD-RAM.

    2. Use shorten segment to delete the side change and blank
    space between disc 1 and 2.

    3. Record the RAM to the E80 hard drive in "real
    time" using the Panasonic E35 to re-format to 16x9.

    4. High speed dub from the HD to a DVD-R.

    Believe me I have done a ton of laserdisc conversions and you will not be disappointed with the final product.
     
  7. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    Ernest: I don't quite understand the advantage of your procedure. It appears to me that you've added steps that will degrade, rather than enhance, the picture. But maybe the E35 does something I'm not aware of.

    How is the laser disc reformatted to 16x9? Is this an option on the E35? And once it is 16x9, how do you go about flagging the DVD-R that its anamorphic? I do not recall this option on the E80, and even if the E35 will add it, I don't believe it will carry over to the E80. Furthermore, even if you are able to make an anamorphic dvd of a laser disc, no information is added; how can it be better?

    So - could you explain your procedure in a little more detail? Thanks.
     
  8. Ernest

    Ernest Supporting Actor

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    Don't get me wrong the picture improvement will not jump at you as a commercial DVD formatted for 16x9 does. The final product will only be as good as the source material. It is more work but to me, and others that are doing the same conversion, the picture looks better.

    Those on the other popular forum are also using the Panasonic E35 letterbox zoom to reformat to 16x9. The E35 plays RAM and the zoom includes the popular formats, 1:66x1, 1:85x1, 2:35x1, etc., as well as individual ratio changes.

    Working from laserdisc you have approximately 425 lines of resolution that you want to convert to 480 x 480 = 16x9, 1:78x1. 480 x 360 is 4x3, 1:33x1.

    If you convert the laserdisc without reformatting you end up with 480 x 360. I then assume you either use a zoom on the DVD player or HD TV to reformat to get to 480 x 480? Unless you did not convert to 16x9 and view the movie letterboxed 480 x 360 with thick black bars. But why would you when the major reasons to buy an HD TV is for receiving HD TV signals and eliminating or reducing the ugly black bars on DVD's.

    Sooner or later most of us are going to convert the letterbox laserdisc transfer to 16x9. I have found, as other have, the best conversion is when the player zooms the video to 16x9. Its the same as the commercial processors do except they have much better equipment and are transferring prime source material.

    It is my understanding, from sources such as Widescreen, Home Theater and others, CRT red, green and blue guns are optimized in the "Full" viewing. That may not be true for DLP, Plasma or LCOS. So the improvement comes from being able to view the reformatted DVD-R using "Full", rather than "theaterwide" as Toshiba labels the aspect ratios on their HD TV's.

    Members of the other forum claim you can add the 16x9 flag, but it has to be added by a PC not the Panasonic E80. As long as I select "normal" on my JVC, Toshiba or Panasonic players the DVD-R displays in a 16x9 format on my HD TV's as if the flag was added.

    It is a personal preference that one has to decide whether it is worth the work for the small improvement. then again, you may have some great titles like 55 days at Peking, El Cid, Fall of the Roman Empire we keep hoping are released on DVD, but for now the laserdisc is the best there is. For those titles it maybe worth the extra effort.
     
  9. Rick P

    Rick P Supporting Actor

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    Ernest..

    I've done my LD's the same way (dontcha just LOVE that S35 'stretch' mode???) But I do it SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT (just SLIGHTLY) but it DOES make a BIG diffrence in PQ..


    1) record each side of a LD to DVD-RAM IN XP (1hr max).

    2) play EACH RAM back into the E80 on the S35, manually pausing between disc changes. The E80 is running FR for the total length of the film (+ a coupla minutes for slop)

    3) edit the disc breaks out, either

    a) on the E80 or

    b) If I'm a mood to get fancy with chapters, custom menus, seperate trailers, etc take it from the E80's HD to another RAM and edit on the PC

    4) author/burn the final product.

    By doing the FIRST recording to RAM using XP it's the absolute HIGHEST QUALITY SOURCE for the second recording. On most discs, I can't tell them from the original disc (and that's on a 42" screen). Then FR'ing the final product, allocating the MAXIMUM BITRATE for the final product.

    also, use the COMPOSITE inputs on the E80 for the 1st recording (LD>E80), since the Y/C seperation and TBC seems to do a better job.
     
  10. Jason Borchers

    Jason Borchers Second Unit

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