Kevin Smith's movies: What am I missing? (1 Viewer)

[Moe Maishlish]

I've never had a problem "getting" Kevin Smith, mostly because he & I share the same perspective when it comes to pop culture, society, women, etc.

Smith is very much a filmmaker of his own making. He kind of makes the film to satisfy himself & his own visions, although his style seems to be slipping a bit to more mainstream hollywood.

Smith is also a filmmaker who will never take himself very seriously. He's publicly stated that he doesn't consider himself to be the best filmmaker in the world, but as long as there are people out there who can appreciate his product, then he will continue to make it regardless of what some critics & fans may think.

If you really want to understand Kevin Smith, do yourself a HUGE favor, and rent "An Evening with Kevin Smith". It's one of the funniest and most informative insights you'll ever have into his creative mind & thought processes, and he's incredible abilities as a public speaker make the viewing experience memorable.

Moe.

 

[Jean D]

I have been a fan of Clerks since I first saw it on pay-per-view back when I was in my early teens. since then Ive seen it dozens of times. I lost count at around 24. I still think to this day Clerks is one of those movies you can quote to no end. not many movies can be quoted verbatim throughout the script. and still stay funny. I used to really like Mallrats, but as I get older, I don't find it so great anymore. Id much rather Chasing Amy or Dogma (which im also sick of), Ive yet to see Jersey Girl or An Evening with Kevin Smith, but I do own all the others (including Clerks Animated). I do think however that Clerks will not be topped. Even though its a rumor and I know it may never happen, I think Clerks 2 would be so excellent.


I heard he did back out of it.

Theres another thread on here about Clerks X the 10th anniversary DVD release allegedly coming out which mentions about Green Hornet and a possible Clerks 2

 

[TheLongshot]

Doesn't surprise me at all. This is well out of his comfort level, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did step aside after writing it.

Jason

 

[MickeS]

I saw "Clerks" when it came out and loved it. I've seen it numerous times since then, and while I see its flaws, it's still my favorite movie of his, and the only one I feel he's managed to make like he envisioned it, perhaps along with "Chasing Amy", which blew me away almost as much as "Clerks" did. Unfortunately, I didn't care too much for "Dogma" or "Mallrats", and haven't seen "Jay & Silent Bob Strikes Back" or "Jersey Girl".

I don't think there's too much to get, either you like it or you don't. He's not an "important" filmmaker and he's not pretending that he is, but he sure has a knack for creating interesting conversations and situations.

I also like the stuff he's been doing for "The Tonight Show", I wouldn't mind if they expanded on that and made a movie out of it (scripted or unscripted).

His quote above really makes me respect him, nice to see someone realize that maybe they're not the right person for the project and pull out in time.

 

[DaveGTP]

That's a great attitude, and honest to know your own limitations. An Evening with Kevin Smith was very funny and very insightful.


As far as liking him, it depends. I've worked a few slacker jobs, and my wife was a video store clerk for about a year. I got her to watch clerks while she was a video store clerk and she laughed her head off.

Personally, I would say my order goes:

Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma, J&SB Strike Back, Mallrats.

It's the off-kilter sense of humor and the character dialogue. And the occasional bit of Kevin Smith wisdom, what little of it there is: like the one about not every girl bringing you lasagna at work.


It's like why I like Pulp Fiction from Tarantino: it's the character dialogue over anything else.

Kevin Smith is like that, except without Tarantino's cinematography skills. But he has quite a bit of humbleness - no pretensiousness - that makes up for it, along with some nerdiness that helps.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Actually, I think that makes him the anti-Cameron. Lucas's dialogue sucks, and he's not all that proficient as a director in other ways either. (At least not over his last two flicks - when they succeed, it's more despite Lucas's directorial efforts than BECAUSE of them...)

Personally, I like Smith's stuff. He was an acquired taste, but the only Smith flick I can't stand is Mallrats - too insipid. (I've not seen Jersey Girl yet.)

I'd rank Smith's stuff like so:

Best: Chasing Amy - funny, clever, and has a heart
2nd: Clerks - incompetent filmmaking at its funniest!
3nd: J&SBSB - slightly more competent filmmaking at its... pretty funniest!
4th: Dogma - too on the nose in its messages, but still thought-provoking and amusing
5th: Mallrats - fart and dick jokes at their worst - a dud.

 

[Kevin M]

Yes, at first when I began watching Smith's films I thought his dialog was rather stilted, immature and unrealistic considering the topics he was taking on however after getting used to his beats I began to think as Andrew does, his dialog may be rather cartoony at time, maudlin at others but it cuts to the heart of the matter in ways that have rather profound and sometimes deeper meaning than the best subtle hints at depth that most studio film have a hope of conveying.

BTW to me DOGMA is his best film from all angles, a classic that will be recognized as such after a bit of time has passed and the initial controversy surrounding the film has faded...much along the lines of Life of Brian and The Last Temptation Of Christ.

 

[Mike Graham]

Chasing Amy really spoke to me. It really tries to explain to young males what women are really all about; yes, they've all had previous relationships, but that shouldn't have any effect on the current one. Plus, its funny as hell!

 

[Will_B]

Kevin Smith is most like Woody Allen, isn't he? Chasing Amy is Smith's Manhattan.

Sure there's other filmmakers who are known for their writing more than their cinematography, like Whit Stillman, but I think Smith is most like Allen because like Allen he sometimes makes absolute crap which makes people scratch their heads and say "How could the man who made Chasing Amy make something as limp as J&SBSB?"

 

[DaveGTP]

I enjoyed J&SBSB plenty. It was very much a fanservice movie, for the fans.

 

[Kevin M]

Oddly enough Chasing Amy, while being a generally good film, has the biggest conceit at the end that I was rather mad at Smith for.
Ok, we have Ben's character who for the most part is a fairly openminded man who seems to be genuinely trying to understand a woman for who she is yet at the very end he turn into this total moron...never having showed any signs of this mentality for the rest of the film mind you...who has the worst idea for relationship compromise i have ever heard of. Smith took a well meaning if immature character and turned him into just another cliche "dumb guy" for the sake of a totally out of place "women are good, men are basically stupid...but we're trying" story wrap up rather than being true to the characters he set up for the first three halves of the film.
I was very disappointed at this ending as it was IMO so out of left field as to seem to be penciled in at the last moment to quell any criticism from the lesbian community that it was just another male fantasy of turning the gay woman straight by giving her the right man...admittedly this was a danger inherent in the story line but I'd like to think he could have resolved this without resorting to the same old "dumb clueless guy" routine.

Just my opinion.

 

[Will_B]

See I didn't take it that way at all. I saw it as a film that condescended to the audience, a film that said "I bet the audience is dumb enough to enjoy this, even if I, Kevin Smith, know it isn't original or even all that funny." And the "for the fans" bit was just massive spin control to make fans think it was "hip" when even he knew it was not.

If that's truly the level of his talent, and Chasing Amy and Clerks and Clerks: Animated were abberations, then there's a whole line of former-SNL-cast-members-movies waiting to be made with him as director.

I suspect we'll see many great films from him for a long time, assuming he stops smoking.

 

[Gary->dee]

A lot of good responses here that reassure me that I'm not some odd freak for not liking Smith's movies.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I'm with you Gary. It will be interesting to see where he goes from here. To survive an artist needs to grow - so far Smith hasn't demonstrated that. Right now he seems to be going backwards.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Well, you may be an odd freak, but we can't blame that on your dislike for Smith!

I think KS is a love him or hate him filmmaker. He's clearly a cult/niche guy who appeals almost exclusively to a pretty small demographic. Is there anyone out there who likes KS who didn't grow up as a comic book fan? Not that you MUST have that background, but it seems like middle class white boys with some nerdishness in their past are his prime audience - y'know, basically guys like him.

 

[Haggai]

Colin, I've never been into comic books, and I'm a KS fan. However, I do fit every other element of the target demographic that you mentioned.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Not entirely accurate. Smith's favorite movie is Chasing Amy (last time he said), while Manhattan is a film Woody for some baffling reason he isn't too proud of.

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, my wife and my best friend for two examples.

I do think he kinda speaks to my generation, which was when I was in college in the early 90s. Basically, it was aimed at our age level, who recently went through some of the things he describes in the movie, and the pop culture references that we are very familiar with.

Jason

 

[Gary->dee]

Thing is that I like comic books, although I don't hardly read them as much as I used to. But I definitely understand the culture. I'm also a Star Wars nut and of course I like good movies(and even some bad ones). I can also have a really silly sense of humor and I like it in movies- when it's done right. Technically I think I should like Kevin's movies because we're about the same age and basically like the same things. But it just isn't so. To me his movies are cable fair at best or straight-to-video. Whether it's the story, humor, cinematography, music, etc. I don't like any of these elements in his movies(especially the music).
I think he has the potential to make a good comic book movie, not for laughs unless it's The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers movie that was proposed back in the early 80's but never made it past the development stage. Then again Smith already has his Freak Brothers in Jay and Silent Bob. There are filmmakers out there that make a few 'eh' movies and eventually make their huge hit that elevates them to another level. Whether it's Spielberg, Lucas, Peter Jackson, the Wachowski(sp) Brothers, and so on. Then again I'm being optimistic because something in me thinks that maybe one day Kevin Smith will make a movie I'll actually like or god forbid- love? Nah..

 

[Qui-Gon John]

I totally agree. I really loved DOGMA. His other movies were lackluster, at least what I know of. I have seen CLERKS and JAY & SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK. They were only mediocre. I don't know for sure if I ever saw CHASING AMY and MALLRATS or not. Not that I can recall, but I may have rented them when they first came out and just don't remember.

I think a lot of the success/appeal of DOGMA, to me, is the great performances by so many talented actors, Alan Rickman, Chris Rock, George Carlin, Affleck, Damon, Linda Fiorentino, Jason Lee, Salma Hayek, Mewes & Smith. Sure the story and screenplay and directing were a big part of it, but I think all that talent really clinched it.