How long will you keep the Outlaw 950 before replacing it ?? (1 Viewer)

[Cary P]

I strongly agree that a nice 2 channel pre-amp with a HT bypass is the way to go if you're a music lover and don't want to obsessively worry about the 2 channel performance of your home theater pre-pro/receiver.

I recently purchased an Anthem Pre 2L SE tubed preamp new in the box for less than $1000. I love what this thing has done for the 2 channel performance of my system. The high end is so extended and smooth with the Anthem, there is a lot more presence and weight in the lower midrange, and the bass has greater depth than what I was getting with my Marantz SR7200 receiver in source direct mode. I now have all of my 2 channel analog sources hooked directly into the Anthem and am only using the Marantz for DVD, DSS, and the digital output of my CD player (for those rare occasions when I feel like listening to music in DPLII).

It is very quiet for a tubed preamp, and it has been very reliable and well-behaved so far. If the Pre2L is any indication, the build quality and packaging of Anthem products is top-notch and I can recommend them without hesitation.

For home theater bypass, I simply run two high quality interconnect cables from the FL/FR preout of my Marantz 7200 receiver to the Anthem ht bypass input, and I'm good to go. I'm mostly a music guy, and this setup allows me to invest in and upgrade my 2 channel signal chain without worrying too much about the 2 channel performance of my home theater gear. I've programmed the Anthem remote codes into the AUX settings of the Marantz remote, and now I can control the whole setup very easily.

The combination of a really nice 2 channel pre-amp with a home theater bypass and a mid-level home theater receiver offers a lot of bang for the buck, IMHO. The Marantz 7200/Anthem Pre 2L SE combo cost me a total of about $1700 and now I have plenty of the latest surround formats to play with, along with excellent 2 channel tube sound for serious music listening. I figure I can upgrade the 7200 in a year or two, if need be, but the Anthem Pre 2L will be staying in my system for a very long time.

Cary

 

[Jeff Keene]

To be honest, I did not audition the SCS3 :b
I may very well have over-killed the center, but in the speaker system I was replacing (fairly cheap Klipsh), my center was the weakest link which drove me nuts.
Some of my thinking was also directed at the future of 5.1 music. I don't think most producers have figured out how to use the center channel yet, but I want the center to match the 2.3 as closely as possible when they do. The MCS1 uses the same tweeter/midrange driver as the 2.3 which should help keep voices sounding the same across the front. Also like the 2.3, it is a 3-way speaker. Again, just trying to match the 2.3 as well as I could. Matching for 5-ch music is also why I decided on a pair of 2.3's for the rear as well (again, perhaps overkill, but the funding passed commitee, and...)
Other considerations included power handling, sensitivity, and that cool horizonal stand
Now, to bring this rambling into context of the topic, I need a pre/pro desperately (I'm using an old Pioneer receiver at the moment) so I have very high hopes for the 950. I hope it sounds as great as I've heard, and that it lasts quite a while. As I mentioned, new sound formats that come down the road won't matter to me much until/unless a new standard is developed (say, for HD-DVD or something) that truly compells me.
I'm intrigued by this talk of using a stereo preamp bypass for the front two channels. Again, I have to hear the 950 before I know what I'll want to do, but this might be a reasonable way to improve 2-ch music even further, without applying for a third mortgage. :frowning:

 

[Will]

since some people have waited as much as 1 1/2 years

I've waited more than TWO years now, for an inexpensive pre/pro with DPL II, which two years ago, was said to be here very soon, at the time. I temporarily bought a cheap Sony receiver to serve as my temporary pre/pro two years ago, just to tide me over, and it is STILL my temporary pre/pro.

After I get a 7.1 channel capable pre/pro (either Outlaw or Rotel, probably), my next purchase will be for 2 more speakers and 2 more amp channels. I won't use two of the channels in my Sony receiver as a "temporary" amp.

 

[Jeff Keene]

Thinking more about the original question...

I think a big part of "keepability" for me will be whether the 950 can be "upgraded" to allow DVD-A / SACD digital connections if and when such exists. Assuming I like the 950's DACs as much as it sounds like I will, I'll want to put them to use in the 5-ch music arena. It is my hope that sooner rather than later I'll be able to purchase a combo DVD-A / SACD transport / player with a coax-digital out. Doesn't seem too much to ask. If / when this happens, I'll want my pre-pro to know what to do with it.

The webpaganda at the 950-clone site (was it Atlantic something) mentioned upgradability via an EPROM I believe (too lazy to go look again). This was good news to me.

 

[John Tompkins]

I have never kept a reciever or processor for more then a year, constantly upgrading every 6 months or so. I also have always been a two channel person for music and this was one of the reasons for my constant upgrades {along with new ht formats}.

I will honestly say that I have always disliked dsp modes for music even the 5 channel mode on the 4802. When I purchased the mc-1 it was for movies and I figured that I certainly wouldnt like any logic modes for music, boy was I wrong. Logic 7 music mode to my ears is incredible, so much so that this is now my preferred mode for music listening. When switching back/forth between two channel and music logic the difference is astonishing in favor of music logic.

Now the upgrade game will change for me, instead of constantly upgrading pre-pros I will concentrate elsewhere. Subs for bass enhance, better transport and maybe down the road something like the TA-P9000ES for sacd and dvd-audio.

 

[Chris PC]

well, speaking of Upgrading, there are those of us watching the 950 fanfair from the sidelines and we are still considering the 950 as one of our FUTURE UPGRADES from our current equipment, so.....
Can I sneak in here and ask a question?
I was very interested in bass management and or the lack of it and just about drilled the issue to death, but I'll ask a simple question here. My receiver currently allows me to use LARGE and SUB=YES or SMALL with the SMALL setting resulting in a subwoofer crossover of 100 hz. If I had an Outlaw 950 pre/pro and my front speakers are rated to 32 hz -3 dB could I "possibly" use the 60 hz setting for the crossover?? I know the 80hz is at least better than the 100 hz I have now, but I'm just wondering....Looking for possibilities, obviously the crossover I ultimately use depends on the overall room response, but is it reasonable to assume that the 60 hz crossover would be possible to use in my situation? My subwoofer is a Mirage BPS-400 and my Front speakers are PSB Image 6T's.
thanx for any suggestions and sorry for the interuption

 

[BruceD]

Chris,

Like you, my mains -3dB is 32Hz (Dunaudio Contour 2.8 towers), and I'm hoping to use the 60Hz xover on the 950 for my mains. I will also look forward to experimenting with the Triple-Xover for the center (-3dB @70Hz) and surrounds (-3dB @47Hz).

Today I use an electronic xover @60Hz between my mains and my Sub (M&K MX-700). My only concern is the high-pass slope (-12dB) of the xover for the 950 mains. Only trying it out for my 30 day trial will help me decide.

 

[JaleelK]

I thought that the new denon 5803 would surely have automatic room calibration, but from what we've heard it doesnt. Thats a GREAT feature that other recievers/pre's should include. Another thing is that although bass management is getting better, it still has a long way too go as far as flexibility.(if sony can do it on a 1000.00 reciever then way cant anybody else?)

Automatic room calibration should be a deal breaker for anyone searching a high quality A/V receiver. Automatic means its not manual, as long as unit has some kind of calibration automatic or manual and can get by with it. As for Denon 5803, it may not have automatic room calibration like the Pioneer Elite 47tx, but it has other features that the Pioneer doesn't. The biggest feature that 5803 has is the fact that it doesn't have automatic room calibration, however the 5803 is hardware and software upgradble and the 49tx isn't(now thats a serious deal breaker in these days ultra expensise A/V receivers),which means that it is possible that 5803 can be later equipped with such a feature.

I must say, I'm very impressed with Denon and they way they are designing their receivers, they are listening to the consumers more than any other manufacturer. I can't understand how anyone shopping for a new flagship receiver would purchasing anyone of them over the 5803, Denon is

number ONE, in my opinion, when it comes to receivers.

 

[JaleelK]

I don't know how long it will take for the upgrade bug to hit, but I believe it will be at least two years. If it sounds great musically I will just move it into my living room or bedroom when I upgrade, that would be nice. The second question is yes, I would have bought the Onkyo 989 in early 2001 if I had not heard about the Outlaw. Either way, the wait has been a real rollercoaster, would not have missed it for the world.

The upgrade bug will hit whenever the manufacturers and their marketeers decide it's time to CON-vince you that you need to upgrade, that somehow the current system you have, that you spent thousands of $$$, is now obsolete. It's obsolete because its doesn't have some feature,(which maybe a useless one)that they will tell you that you must have, that you need to upgrade, to keep up with the rest of the A/V world or you will be left behind.

Here are so new "must have" features that folks thought they needed to have, but in reality are pretty much useless:

1)Surround EX. Now honestly, within the two years that this feature/format came to the hometheater market how much software has been released in this format? A meager amount. Hell, they don't even feature Surround EX in the theaters, I think Episode One was the last movie to use it theatricallly. Basically, Surround EX has been a joke on consumers and a cash cow for equippment manufacturers.

2)DTS-ES Matrix and Discrete. Here I have the same issue with this format as I do with Surround EX. DTS-ES was never released theatrically.

3)Pro-logic2, some will strongly disagree with me here, but I have always contended with the advocates of this format, that DPL-2 is a step backwards, since we have gone to discrete formats, we don't need a matrix anything. However, I know some of you still like to watch VHS movies, and cable movies and would like to incorporate Pro-logic2 when doing so.

Usefull and good features that should make you want to upgrade.

1)Flagship receivers that are hardware and software upgradeable. Do you remember the separates folks number one criticism of purchasing a flagship receiver was that it wasn't upgradable,whenever new technologies came out you would always need to purchase a new receiver. When the likes of Denon, Onkyo and B&K answered that by introducing A/V receivers that were hardware and software upgrageable adding flexibility to an A/V receiver that was only available in high priced separates, you don't hear that criticism anymore. BTW, that was a legitimate criticism and I think flagship receivers should be upgradable, the days of replacing a entire flagship receiver in just one year should be over.

2)Progressive scan DVD players. This is the best thing that has happen in the A/V world in the last two years(providing you have a TV that accept progressive scan output). Some-

times I watch DVD's on my Widescreen TV and I'm just amazed at the picture quality and the film like quality that progressive scan coupled anamorphically enhanced DVD's present. Progressive Scan players are definately something one should get "upgraditis" over.

Features that I wish they would bring to the market.

1) Firewire inputs/outputs on all of over A/V components, that is worth upgrading over.

2) Bass management inside of receivers and pre/pros for SACD and DVD-A players connected by way of firewire.

3)Hi-Def DVD players with firewire and component video connectivity.

In my opinion, these would represent major step forwards in technology being incorporated into A/V producted and would definately cause me to want to upgrade. Until then,with the exception of speakers, will keep my present equipment for years.