How long will you keep the Outlaw 950 before replacing it ?? (1 Viewer)

[John Tompkins]

I was just wondering since some people have waited as much as 1 1/2 years for the 950.... How long do you plan on keeping the outlaw 950 in your system before replacing it with another processer ??.... taking into consideration new formats, upgraditis disease, etc.

My second question is, if you had hindsite about the delays on the 950, would you still be getting the 950 and if not what would you have in its place ??

 

[Legairre]

Since I'm not getting a 950 maybe I should stay out of this one, but what the heck I like audio gear. Whether I bought a 950, Rotel, Sherbourn or any other pre/pro. I think I would be looking to upgrade in about 2 years if a significant amount of changes too place in the industry. The only pre/pro I think I would be keeping for the long haul is the Anthem AVM20. IMO it's the most future proof pre/pro I know of. I should also add that since the AVM20 is 2-3 times as expensive as the cheaper pre/pros I'd probably still be spending the same money over 4-6 years. So It's a wash. Spend a lot now or a little every 2 years. For me the money comes out the same.

 

[Vishwa Somayaji]

While that number is highly dependent on the degree of "upgraditis" one has, my best guess is that it should serve well for a minimum of three years or more. My reasoning is as follows. There sure will be newer formats before that. However, the acceptance and spread of any new formats will be very slow. Look at the DTS-ES descrete scenario. It is great but for the longest time there was just Gladiator. Most in this board are, of course, after 7.1 formats. But, even in the spring of 2002, there are only a limited number of 6.1 movies out there. The next likely thing to come up in all the receivers and pre-pros is room-equalization routine as found in the pioneer elite receivers(MCAAC). The next thing may be a height channel. But the true difference will be made when, for example a variant of THX Ultra-2 will rival or excel Lexicon's Logic 7. People already rave about applying logic-7 to 5.1. Imagine if the next version of Outlaw's or others' pre-pro had the ability to do something like that to all the 5.1 movies. That will be the time there will be mass migration. Until then it will be like now. People who want to upgrade will always find a reason to do so, but the 950 will support most of the software for a long time.

To answer the second question, I for one sure would have bought Onkyo 898 and used it as a prepro(+the back channel amps) a long time ago. I was sure the Outlaws were coming out around Thanksgiving(Then of course, Christmas....)

 

[Jeff Keene]

I don't care much about the new formats. I'm certainly not going to be buying any new speakers any time soon, and with DD, DTS, Pro-logic II, and inputs for an eventual SACD/DVD-A player (I'll wait til there is a reasonable combo player), I'll have my 5.1 bases covered.
So for me, it's a question of musical sound.
I have very high hopes for the sound of the 950. The only pre/pro that has me lusting is the yet-to-come-out BAT AV-10. It is promising the works, including a tube stage for a richer sound. My current speaker and amp combo, Thiel and Krell is WONDERFUL, but could maybe use a subtle smoothing out that the tube stage MIGHT supply.
THe point of my lust is moot, however, since the AV-10 will be priced at $12k - $16k. OUCH!
What was the question again?

 

[John Tompkins]

I was also thinking that when Outlaw comes out with there 1500.00 pre-pro probably in the next 10 months or so that we will see a mad rush of 950's on the hardware for sale pages, Because alot of people will upgrade knowing they will have the latest/best outlaw unit for only 600.00 more. Sorta like we are seeing with the svs's, at least one or two a day for sale because people are upgrading to the new svs's.

I thought that the new denon 5803 would surely have automatic room calibration, but from what we've heard it doesnt. Thats a GREAT feature that other recievers/pre's should include. Another thing is that although bass management is getting better, it still has a long way too go as far as flexibility.(if sony can do it on a 1000.00 reciever then way cant anybody else?)

Maybe a company might come out with some type of "front effect" speakers (not unlike Yamaha) to give us possible 9.1 sound....Two sets of 5.1 inputs should become a standard as well.

 

[brian a]

I'd guess about one year in my system before I start shopping again. That's been about average over the past few years.

 

[BruceD]

I began building my current 5.1 DD/DTS system about 4 years ago starting with the replacement of a Yamaha DSP-A1000 (my 1st surround component) with a Technics DD/DTS processor, a Parasound stereo preamp, and a Parasound 5-channel amp. The only other components I've replaced are a Yamaha CD player with a Parasound CD player and I demoed for 30 days and returned an external DAC, the EVS Millenium II DAC.

I've focused on the 2-channel music ability of my system components because that's my main use (90/10 music/HT). I'm looking forward to demoing the 950 to see if it can replace a number of components (stereo preamp, DD/DTS processor, external xover) without compromising the sound quality of 2-channel music. I will also be happy to take advantage of DPL-II.

So, will I be buying another prepro 2 or even 4 years down the road? Probably not if the noise floor is sufficiently low enough on this prepro to provide great 2-channel, which will also provide great HT sound quality as well. I'm hoping all the beta testers results were actually accurate, but only my own ears will decide.

I already have a sophisticated MLS acoustic measurement system (software and calibrated mic) set-up in my listening room to model and compare any changes I make. I don't really want that in a prepro or receiver like the Pioneer.

 

[Jeff Keene]

Bruce --

I'll be interested to hear what you think when you hear it. My name went on the list in Feb, so it may be a while before my number is up. I'll be very interested in the opinions of music-lovers like yourself (I'm also one of them 2-ch people here lately) that receive their 950's before I do.

I'm pretty confident I'll like it fine for movies. So I'm less worried about that. I'd say I'm 70/30 music to movies.

 

[John Tompkins]

I'm looking forward to demoing the 950 to see if it can replace a number of components (stereo preamp, DD/DTS processor, external xover) without compromising the sound quality of 2-channel music

Good luck on this. I dont think this will be possible to the degree that a true two channel guy would except. I think the best setup for true two channel AND HT would be a seperate stereo preamp with a home theater bypass connected to a ht processor. At the touch of a button you could remove the stereo preamp out of the loop saving you from swapping cables. Its easier to get great ht performance but getting true two channel performance from a ht processor is tough to say the least, again good luck.

 

[BruceD]

I think the best setup for true two channel AND HT would be a seperate stereo preamp with a home theater bypass connected to a ht processor.

I know this setup very well as I have been using it as my 2-channel + HT system for the past 4 years.
I am extremely interested in specific design parameters used in the 950 that seem to deliver very high sound quality as reported by the beta testers. Many receivers and prepros do not go to these extremes with their products.
Examples include:

• -Large Toroidal Transformer Power Supply For Low Noise And Excellent Dynamic Range
  -18,000mfd Of Main Power Supply Capacitance
  -Main Power Supply Is Physically Shielded From All Low Level Circuitry
  -Multiple Locally Regulated Power Supplies In Addition To The Main Regulated Supply To Isolate Analog, Digital, And Video Processing Circuits
  -All Input/Output Switching Circuitry Is Located Directly Adjacent To The Rear Panel For Minimum Cross Talk And Noise
  -All Input/Output Switching Circuitry Is Electronic To Maximize Signal Purity And Further Reduce Cross Talk And Noise
  -All Inputs And Outputs Are Buffered, Which Isolates Them To Reduce Potentially Detrimental Sonic Impact From Cable Variations, Differences In The Impedances, And The “Load” Presented By Connected Components
  -All Video Switching/Processing Located On A Dedicated Circuit Assembly Carefully Positioned To Minimize The Possibility Of Any Audio/Video Interaction
  -Digital Processing Circuitry Is Physically Isolated From Audio Processing Circuits
  -4 Dual Channel High Speed 24 Bit Crystal Processors Allow Advanced Decoding Of Up To 7.1 Channels Of High Fidelity Information
  -Selected Critical Components Are 1% Tolerance
  -Star Grounding Reduces Hum And Ground Loops
  -Optical Encoder Volume Control

 

[Jed M]

I don't know how long it will take for the upgrade bug to hit, but I believe it will be at least two years. If it sounds great musically I will just move it into my living room or bedroom when I upgrade, that would be nice. The second question is yes, I would have bought the Onkyo 989 in early 2001 if I had not heard about the Outlaw. Either way, the wait has been a real rollercoaster, would not have missed it for the world.

 

[Chris Zell]

Bruce and John,

.

I think the best setup for true two channel AND HT would be a seperate stereo preamp with a home theater bypass connected to a ht processor

Could you tell me exactly how you set this up - can't seem to get my brain to wrap around this and have the HT pre/pro completely out of the circuit with a button.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[John Tompkins]

Chris,
For example if you used the sony ta-p9000 stereo pre-amp. It has two sets of 5.1 inputs say for sacd and dvd audio. You would plug these two units analog inputs directly into the tap9000. You would hook up your ht processor pre outs to the sony tap9000 and then from the sony tap9000 you would run cables out to your amps. When you hit the bypass button, it would totally bypass the volume controls on the sony tap9000. When bypass button on tap 9000 isnt engaged all volume controls are functional. This way you would never have to swap cables or worry about the tap getting in the way or messing with double volume issues.
Did I just say that, man thats so confusing I dont know what I'm saying:frowning: Seriously maybe somebody else can explain it better then me.
Also you could subsitute the above tap9000es with something like the Sonic frontiers two channel tube pre-amp with HT bypass, there are others that have ht bypass but I cant think of any at the moment

 

[Chris Demaree]

I will use the 950 until it breaks after the warranty expires. It has all of the decoding I care about, produces excellent sound, has all of the features I consider neccessary and is affordable.

 

[BruceD]

The preferred method for a 2-channel preamp and processor used together allows the processor to be turned off while you're using the 2-channel preamp.

Essentially all your 2-channel sources are plugged into the stereo preamp, turntable CD player, 2 channel SACD, FM, etc.

The L&R main pre-outs from the processor take a detour to the stereo preamp's L&R AUX or HT bypass inputs. The L&R main pre-outs from the stereo preamp go to the L&R main amp-inputs.

This way the L&R main amplifier channels are always driven by the stereo preamp outputs, you just select the correct input (TT, CD, FM, HT, etc).

When I listen to a CD or an LP, I never even turn on the processor. Since the stereo preamp always needs to be turned-on no matter what I'm listening to, I use the stereo preamp's 12 volt trigger to turn on the 5 channel amplifier.

If you don't have a stereo preamp with an HT bypass (I don't by the way) you need to adjust the stereo preamps volume control during the HT speaker calibration process (and then mark that specific volume position). My stereo preamp volume control adjusts to 12 o'clock for the 75dB reference signal from the test DVD.

When I listen to HT, I turn on the processor and, I move the stereo preamps volume control to 12 o'clock and select the AUX(HT) input.

All the other speakers are driven by the processor pre-outs going directly to the amp-inputs.

This may seem complicated, but it's not. I use a learning remote control (RS 15-1994) for easy control.

 

[Chris Zell]

Thanks John and Bruce,

My stereo preamp does not have HT bypass, so the hookup Bruce mentioned is applicable me. Actually, it did not sound complicated, you made it quite simple and clear.

I would, however, like to have the option of playing 2 channel through the HT (DPLII< etc.), so I could take a tape output from the stereo pre and send it to the HT pre/pro. Gotta be careful of loops! For some sources (CD for example), I can send the analog out to the stereo pre (no digital inputs anyway), and the digital to the HT, so I can use either.

I also have another simple passive decoder that I want active, so I plan on hooking the 950 zone 2 output to it (or with this setup, an output from the stereo preamp), then the 5.1 outputs of this second decoder to the 6.1 950 inputs. Weird - I'll select the 2-channel source of interest on zone 2, and select analog bypass on zone 1 to listen to it (I don't have a zone 2 system now).

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Larry B]

Jeff Keene:

Which Thiel's do you have? I have the CS6's.

Larry

 

[Jeff Keene]

Larry --

Nice! I have four 2.3's and a MCS1 for the center. I'm using the Krell Home Theater Standard amp (5x400W @ 4 ohms).

Jeff

 

[Larry B]

Jeff:

Nice! I have four 2.3's and a MCS1 for the center. I'm using the Krell Home Theater Standard amp (5x400W @ 4 ohms).

Wow! Damn impressive.
Why the MSC1? Did you find that the SCS was inadequate?
Larry

 

[Mifr44]

"I use a Sonic frontiers Line 1 tube preamp along with a Sony TAE9000ES pre/pro. You can get a setup much like this for about $2500. There is no pre/pro out there which will give you better music performance and the only units which are even close are well over $5000 (with the exception of Brystons SP-1)"

IMO, the Anthem AVM-20 qualifies here at much less than $5000. Its' 2 channel bypass was better for us than the Bryston BP-25 preamp (which the SP-1's analog stage is based on). It was the only prepro I auditioned that I found worthy of handling our 2 channel stereo music.

It is interesting that the AVM-20 is made by Sonic Frontiers, as is the Line 1 tube preamp you own.

Michael