House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones prequel series) (1 Viewer)

[Joe Wong]

I liked most of the casting choices and I am curious about hints at some of the relationships that the first episode teased. I particularly enjoyed Rhys Ifans' portrayal of Otto Hightower. For me, it was just the right amount of subtlety with a hint of his ambition. In addition to Ifans I thought that Emma D'arcy was solid as Princess Rhaenyra. She was visually striking and it was another case of a performer whom I felt hit the right note for the character. Matt Smith was fine, but I still tend to associate him with the Doctor. (But that's just me.)

There were dragons and there were tits. So, all good.

- Walter.

The first time I saw Rhys Ifans was in Notting Hill, playing Hugh Grant’s roommate. He made such an impression as a comedic foil that it’s sometimes off-putting to see him in a serious role. But he has shown he can be very good in serious roles (similar to how Steve Coogan impressed with his role in Philomena). I will now call him: Noted dramatic actor Rhys Ifans.

I believe that was Milly Alcock playing the young Rhaenyra. Emma D’arcy will play the older version later on.

As for Matt, he looked like he could play an elf as well! I call him Philip because he played the Duke of Edinburgh in The Crown.

 

[Walter Kittel]

I believe that was Milly Alcock playing the young Rhaenyra. Emma D’arcy will play the older version later on.

Yes, you are correct. Senior moment, and all that. In any event, I did think that Rhaenyra was one of the more effective characters in the first episode. So, nice work Milly Alcock.

- Walter.

 

[Walter Kittel]

One other comment...

Spoiler

I don't consider myself particularly squeamish, but... Sheesh, between the Gold Cloak massacre, some of the tournament combat, and the medieval C-Section. Damn, this episode was brutal at times.

- Walter.

 

[Sam Favate]

One other comment...

Spoiler

I don't consider myself particularly squeamish, but... Sheesh, between the Gold Cloak massacre, some of the tournament combat, and the medieval C-Section. Damn, this episode was brutal at times.

- Walter.

HBO does this sort of thing on purpose. They want you to know you’re not watching regular television. Of course, that’s been their MO for years. Someone should tell them that all the streaming services show TV-MA content now.

 

[Greg.K]

Missed having a GOT-esque opening credits sequence. Hope that returns. Otherwise a good start for this show.

 

[Joe Wong]

One other comment...

Spoiler

I don't consider myself particularly squeamish, but... Sheesh, between the Gold Cloak massacre, some of the tournament combat, and the medieval C-Section. Damn, this episode was brutal at times.

- Walter.

Spoiler

Pretty gruesome indeed! But I think it’s in keeping with some of the brutality from GoT. It would feel a lot different if there was no blood (or nudity).

(As an aside, I now grin/groan at the scenes in many films where a woman who has just made love with another person then pulls up the blankets to cover herself while speaking with that person. Now they’re suddenly concerned about their modesty? Not that there should be gratuitous nudity just for the sake of it but it doesn’t fit with the actions.)

Another comment:

I found the jump from the doctor holding the newborn baby and saying congrats, to the reveal of the dead baby at the funeral pyre, a little shocking/jarring. There was no inkling that the baby was suffering any ill effects. But if that’s the intention, it worked! (And my wife reminds me that many babies born prior to the advent of modern medicine often only survived a few hours. Contrast to present times where doctors run an immediate battery of tests on a newborn.)

 

[Randy Korstick]

I think that, in general, as great as the first 6 seasons was for GoT, the rushed nature of the last 2 seasons (even if there were some amazing moments individually) soured a lot of people’s attitude towards the show.

So I think people are approaching with caution.

I believe it’s based on a prequel book that George R R Martin wrote so there is source material to work off, but I also agree that HBO is opportunistically leveraging the brand to its max. Hopefully it’s good enough to restore some of the goodwill that GoT’s first 6 seasons generated.

I will be watching, but I would have preferred going forward in time rather than backwards (as the Jon Snow series will do).

As long as I live I will never understand the rushed comments. I believe those comments are mostly from the Danys crowd that seemed to not catch all the hints of her descent to madness that were given every season.
They basically took what was left of the material which was only enough for another season of 10 episodes and stretched it into 13 episodes many of them extra long episodes for the final 2 seasons. I found the final season slow. A perfect example is after they setup the big battle in the snow at the end of episode one. Episode two is nothing but sitting around the fire getting drunk and talking before the battle finally happens in episode 3. I didn't need a whole episode of sitting around talking and getting drunk.
For me I loved the show until the end of season 5 and then it totally jumped the shark with a horribly unrealistic battle scene. This became the standard for the battle scenes for the rest of the series. Horribly unrealistic especially the big battle late in season 6. Probably the most unrealistic battle scene I have ever seen and lots of cheesy moments of selfish characters suddenly having a change of heart and then coming to the Rescue at the last convenient moment. Season 6 is unwatchable for me now.
I am watching this new series with low expectations and hoping it is better.

 

[Joe Wong]

They basically took what was left of the material which was only enough for another season of 10 episodes and stretched it into 13 episodes many of them extra long episodes for the final 2 seasons.

And that (what was left of the material) may be part of the problem. GRRM is certainly at fault here for his slow writing habits, meaning the showrunners didn't have much to go on, even if GRRM provided them outlines for books 6 and 7 (which is not the same as seeing the outline fleshed out as a novel). GRRM has stated he thought there was enough content for at least 10 seasons:

George R.R. Martin Urged HBO to Make ‘Game of Thrones’ Run for ’10 Seasons at Least’

With "Game of Thrones" spinoff "House of the Dragon" debuting on HBO, author George R.R. Martin spoke about how the original series ended.

variety.com

And the showrunners (Benioff and Weiss) being stressed and tired of the series by the final seasons didn't help.

For me, the rushed nature is due to a comparison of the final 2 seasons versus the previous 6. Not just Daenerys' descent into madness. The first 6 seasons had a methodical cadence which took time to establish and develop events and characters. Then seasons 7 and 8 seemed to be a matter of "Let's wrap everything up!", like the final part of a film trilogy. What should have been a set of monumental (and anticipated) meetings, confrontations, and events, which had been built up over the previous 6 seasons, was shoehorned into 13 episodes that, based again on the established cadence, could have been more.

As an analogy (and it may not be the best one!), let's say Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King was only 90 minutes long. After two 3-hour epics (Fellowship and Two Towers), the final part is only 90 mins? That would have felt "rushed".

So, whether it's a lack of material or the producers had tired of the show, these all contributed to the shortened final 2 series and hence felt "rushed" (to me).

 

[Sam Favate]

I watched GoT from the first episode, and saw it unfold episode after episode, year after year, and I never thought they satisfactorily showed Dany's descent into madness. It was abrupt and very dissatisfying, and that is the main problem I have with the way the show ended. Here's this character that we followed and came to love over 7 or 8 years, whom we supported in her triumphs and felt saddened by her setbacks, and - bang - all of a sudden she's the villain of the piece who must be stopped? No, this was simply bad writing.

 

[JohnRice]

There were a thousand premonitions of Dany's possible descent. I recall a quote that went something like "Every time a Targaryen child is born, God flips a coin and the world holds its breath." Every fascist in history has used the hearts of the people to gain power. That's how it works.

...but this thread is supposed to be about House of the Dragon, isn't it?

 

[Joe Wong]

There were a thousand premonitions of Dany's possible descent. I recall a quote that went something like "Every time a Targaryen child is born, God flips a coin and the world holds its breath." Every fascist in history has used the hearts of the people to gain power. That's how it works.

...but this thread is supposed to be about House of the Dragon, isn't it?

And that's where it may be unsatisfactory for some viewers... that a character's arc is changed (near the end) by the flip of a coin? Even if the coin flip was made when she was born, her character arc over seasons 1-7 and the first half of S8 suggested she was on the "sane" side.

I don't mind her making the turn that she did... but it felt unsatisfactory that she did so in the space of only a couple of episodes (given her previous character development). Like @Sam Favate said, it felt abrupt.

This thread is about HotD but people (including me ) are going to naturally compare it with GoT. I brought up the comparison earlier in the thread as a possible reason why the anticipation for HotD seems low, and the discussion flowed from there.

 

[JohnRice]

And that's where it may be unsatisfactory for some viewers... that a character's arc is changed (near the end) by the flip of a coin? Even if the coin flip was made when she was born, her character arc over seasons 1-7 and the first half of S8 suggested she was on the "sane" side.

I don't mind her making the turn that she did... but it felt unsatisfactory that she did so in the space of only a couple of episodes (given her previous character development). Like @Sam Favate said, it felt abrupt.

This thread is about HotD but people (including me ) are going to naturally compare it with GoT. I brought up the comparison earlier in the thread as a possible reason why the anticipation for HotD seems low, and the discussion flowed from there.

Well, I wasn't all that surprised. I was a little surprised by how far she descended, but not surprised that she descended. I suspect I paid more attention to who she really was becoming, rather than holding out hope for who she initially seemed to be.

 

[JohnRice]

I'll put it this way, when she frees the slave army and butchers their captors. At the time we tend to assume it's done for virtuous reasons, but it can also be an indication that with her there is no "too far". It can be an indication that she will do absolutely anything to achieve her goals.

 

[Joe Wong]

Well, I wasn't all that surprised. I was a little surprised by how far she descended, but not surprised that she descended. I suspect I paid more attention to who she really was becoming, rather than holding out hope for who she initially seemed to be.

Given how many of the characters are cloaked in shades of grey, I wasn't surprised that she turned... it was more the speed at which she did so. Similar to how you were surprised by how far she descended.

 

[John_Bilbrey]

I thought it was a good first episode. Unless I'm mistaken, GRRM has only written the first of the planned 2 Fire and Blood history books. Kind of like we've been waiting years (and years) for the final two A Song of Ice and Fire books.

 

[Sam Favate]

I thought it was a good first episode. Unless I'm mistaken, GRRM has only written the first of the planned 2 Fire and Blood history books. Kind of like we've been waiting years (and years) for the final two A Song of Ice and Fire books.

It is absolutely stunning to me that it has been more than ten years since the last SOIAF book. His publisher must be irate.

 

[Joe Wong]

It is absolutely stunning to me that it has been more than ten years since the last SOIAF book. His publisher must be irate.

Total	4,244	344	1,736,054	198 h 53 min	1996–present
#	Title	Pages	Chapters	Words	Audio	US release
1​	A Game of Thrones	694[12]	73	292,727[13]	33 h 53 min	August 1996[12]​
2​	A Clash of Kings	768[14]	70	318,903[15]	37 h 17 min	February 1999[14]​
3​	A Storm of Swords	973[16]	82	414,604[17]	47 h 37 min	November 2000[16]​
4​	A Feast for Crows	753[18]	46	295,032[19]	31 h 10 min	November 2005[18]​
5​	A Dance with Dragons	1056[20]	73	414,788[21]	48 h 56 min	July 2011[20]​
6​	The Winds of Winter	Forthcoming[22]
7​	A Dream of Spring	Forthcoming[23]

Yeah, the period between books 2 and 3 must have been unusually productive for GRRM!!

I actually read A Game of Thrones when it was first published in the mid-90s. I thought it was good but I really only liked 3 or 4 characters' point of view: Tyrion, Jon, Arya and Daenerys. The other chapters were more of a slog/chore to get through.

I purchased A Clash of Kings around 2001 as I was interested in reading about Stannis Baratheon's entry into the story, and whether Daenerys would reach Westeros in this book. I read only a few pages before putting it aside.

I'm glad I didn't continue reading as, looking back in hindsight:

1. I was wrong about Daenerys reaching Westeros in book 2 (boy, was I ever wrong!)
2. Books 4 and 5 essentially follow the same timeline but with different viewpoint characters. From what I understand, Jon, Tyrion and Daenerys don't have any chapters in book 4. Given they're 3 of the viewpoints I was interested in, book 4 may have been challenging to read (unless I was so engrossed by other aspects or viewpoints, etc.)
3. I would still be waiting in vain for books 6 and 7
4. I mostly enjoyed the (flawed) TV adaptation, which while diverging from the books in later seasons, still mostly follows the broad plot developments towards the end (I believe). This reduces the need to finish the books to find out "what happens".

EDIT: Source of the table above is Wikipedia.

 

[John_Bilbrey]

I read the first 4 when I grabbed a paperback set off Amazon, and the 5th came a couple of years later. Still waiting for the last two lol. The part about the same story being told from two different sides was an interesting concept, I didn't mind it. Obviously, there are certain characters I enjoyed reading more, but to me most were enjoyable.

 

[Randy Korstick]

I didn't ever get a feeling in the last two seasons that there was a rush to wrap things up. When nearly an entire episode in the last season is about sitting around the fire telling stories and getting drunk before a battle instead of just showing the battle that is clearly a filler episode meant to stretch the season because they didn't have enough material. There was quite a bit of other filler in the final 2 seasons too.
Danys descent to madness did not happen on the flip of the coin. It was spelled out in the 1st season and her goal was to retake the Iron throne not be a queen of the freed slaves. After she freed them in season 3 she should have moved on as her goal was urgent with winter coming. But she demonstrated a need to be worshipped and put herself on the throne and stayed there for 4 seasons. As the seasons went on her punishments became more cruel all signs showing her turn to madness. and it was clear that the second she left those thousands of slaver ships were going to return and restore everything to what it was before. So she never accomplished anything by staying there all that time and all of Westeros was in danger as she sat there. Madness indeed.

 

[Joe Wong]

So, whether it's a lack of material or the producers had tired of the show, these all contributed to the shortened final 2 series and hence felt "rushed" (to me).

I just read a review of HotD episode 1 which reminded me of an apt description of how the final 2 seasons of GoT felt rushed.

It was related to travel. In seasons 1-6, traveling from one city to another could take several episodes or even an entire season. In S7, a similar distance or journey took an episode or even less. Eg, in ep 6, the one where Jon leads a troupe of men to seek the White Walkers in the north, beyond the Wall. When they are in strife, a message is dispatched by raven to Daenerys, far to the south. She is able to get the message and arrive with her dragon all within the same episode!

Yes, she had a dragon, but it speaks to the lack of material which would have made it less "rushed".