HORSE ABUSE...I have a very hard time watching many westerns on DVD these days. (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

Those people died doing what they *choose* to do. The animals are *forced* to do what we want them to do. I don't see why this distinction is so difficult for some people to grasp.

I understand your point perfectly, and agree, no animals should be harmed in the making of a film. That said, now that the problem has for all intents and purposes ceased to occur, should we not enjoy the films where such did occur?

 

[Brian Kidd]

If a film were made today where animals were intentionally hurt or killed, I would protest with all my might. Older films, made before people WISED UP and made it illegal to harm defenseless animals for the sake of "entertainment", I would still watch, unless the scenes were of such brutality and callousness that it kept me from enjoying the film. I agree that there's nothing we can do about mistakes of the past, but we can and should make damned sure that such mistakes never happen again.
I feel much the same way about films with racial stereotypes in them. They are a product of their time and should be viewed as such. That being said, it should never happen again. That's the beauty of humanity. We have the opportunity to learn from our mistakes and to remedy them.

 

[Patrick_S]

Adam, I'm positive that no one died during the filming of Ben Hur.

 

[BrianB]

Snopes' comments on the Ben Hur 'death' urban legend

 

[Ryan Wright]

The animals are *forced* to do what we want them to do.

Actually, they're not. They used to be, but they haven't been for years.

They're trained. You can't force most animals to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. You can, however, coax and train them. My dog will sit, lay, shake your hand, etc. Is this because I force her to perform tricks? No; I teach and reward her, and she performs them of her own free will.

Animals on the set are the same way. The trainers have treats and other delights, and when the animal does what is asked of it, it gets the treat. Animals that don't want to do tricks aren't forced to. They simply aren't put in front of a camera if they can't or won't be trained.

The animals have free will and choose to do what they do. Yes, they're coaxed, but they're not forced. One might say you, too, are coaxed into coming to work every day with the promise of a paycheck at the end of the month. Nothing is wrong with that.

 

[MikeAlletto]

The animals are *forced* to do what we want them to do.

So I guess you are against zoos and things like sea world? Ok, lets just open the gates and let all the endangered animals out of their cages to be hunted by man and eaten by bigger animals. Those animals in most zoos live better lives than some people. I wish I could have someone bring me my food, groom me, let me just sit in my natural habitat and do nothing all day long. Not having to worry someone will come up behind and eat me, not having to worry about finding water.

Yeah, they got it really tough don't they.

Excuse me while I go make a burger...hmmmm....meat.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"So I guess you are against zoos and things like sea world? Ok, lets just open the gates and let all the endangered animals out of their cages to be hunted by man and eaten by bigger animals. "

the animals are not hurt when they are in zoos. in this case, i think the animals are not really "coaxed" to do something. they are "duped" to do something. people who get paycheck every month are not duped to do something that might hurt them. humans have a better understanding of life, animals dont.

 

[Aaron Copeland]

they are "duped" to do something. people who get paycheck every month are not duped to do something that might hurt them.

To be "duped" they would have to be tricked. If they know how to do the trick and know that doing the trick gets them a treat, then that's not really trickery. Also, many jobs people do are dangerous, so your second point doesn't really hold up either.

Aaron

 

[felix_suwarno]

"If they know how to do the trick and know that doing the trick gets them a treat, then that's not really trickery. "

yea, but the horses dont know about the side effect that might hurt them, while humans are smarter than that.

edit:

people with dangerous jobs to do know it is dangerous. horses dont.

 

[Chris Lock]

I figure the horses will eventually have to be killed before they make their way to the kitchen at Sizzler, so we might as well get some stunt work out of 'em first.
Plus, a stunt man in a horse costume just doesn't look authentic.
They could use CGI horses, but PETA would find a reason to complain about that, too. I find it hard to take anything seriously after seeing their leader on TV admit she didn't see any difference between human life and animal life. (So if someone shot her, that would be the same as squashing a bug, I guess.)

 

[Jack Briggs]

Nonhuman life is not cheap, and we are the ones foisting this upon them. What happens in nature is one thing; what we do with it is another.

But, I have to admit, you are all keeping this thread refreshingly non-contentious. Well, it's contentious, but it hasn't become a flamefest. Please keep it that way.

And guess what? I don't step on bugs.

 

[Chris Lock]

Well, you can spray Raid on them, but judging by the way they twitch when you do that, I think it's more humane to just step on them.

Notice the word humane comes from human, not animal.

 

[MikeAlletto]

Notice the word humane comes from human, not animal.

Thats because we made it up, not a donkey. Then it would be donkeya or something like that.

 

[Mike Broadman]

The analogy of treating animals the way we would want super powerful aliens to treat us is flawed. Animals do not have the same, if any, understanding of free will, intellectual freedom, etc like humans do. They don't have careers and political objectives. They basically operate on survival and breeding instinct.

Of course there are humane ways to treat animals. For example, I remember seeing a TV show about Indians (the Asian kind) using Elephants for forest work, but sending them back into the wild at night. It was like they had a job. The arrangement benefitted human and animal, as elephants are notoriously difficult to keep under captivity.

I don't think anyone is advocating hurting animals intentionally (except for food). But the idea of never doing anything with them ever is silly.

And yes, I do step on bugs.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Since PETA is a political-action committee and activist group, I could close this thread on the grounds of the "no politics" proviso.

But why the vehemence here? Are we appearing to advocate the unnecessary mistreatment of nonhuman animals?

This thread originated from a sincere disgust at how nonhumans have been treated historically by an unenlightened Hollywood, when horses were allowed to be harmed for the sake of entertainment.

Now there seems to be an increasing advocacy of why it may be acceptable to mistreat, maim, and even kill nonhuman life. Personally, I find that odious. Personally, I said.

As a fair-play moderator, I don't want to close a thread unnecessarily. I am having difficulty, however, reading posts that seem to condone in some way the unnecessary mistreatment of nonhuman life.

But it seems as if people are eager to rile up other people here. If there are any further valid arguments to be made, do so in a respectful way.

Thank you.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"They don't have careers and political objectives. They basically operate on survival and breeding instinct. "

my points exactly.

 

[Larry Seno Jr.]

Deleted.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

Like Mike Alletto said earlier, I wouldn't mind the zoo life, put me in my natural habitat (computer, HT rig, and some free weights), feed me (I'm finicky so they'll have to adjust to my diet), and bred me often (send in a few women and see what appeals to me ) and I'll entertain the alien visitors.
All kidding aside there is now a difference of standards then and now and most of all what could be. The easiest way to vote is simply our wallet buy what entertains you if you can stomach the consequences that it took to make that movie.

 

[John Thomas]

Breed cows to grow up and feed people and nothing is said.
Raise horses, have them in movies (50 years ago even) possibly injuring them and cries are heard 'round the universe.
There's so many things wrong here I can't even start to describe them.
:rolleyes

 

[Christopher P]

I always liked this little nugget of info when it comes to animals on movie sets, courtesy imdb.com regarding "The Shawshank Redemption":



Chris